Question:

Make sure you dont just have a bad electric cooling fan.Mine would work intermitantly It would run very slow or stop, even a junkyard fan did this so i finally forked over the $180 for a new one and the car does not overheat at all anymore.This was after replacing everything else cooling system related.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Speaking of head gaskets, I’ll ask for my own 3.0 ‘clunker’ right now. > A few months ago it was determined that the car’s overheating problem > (this was in connection with a failed fan relay) was due to a leaking > head gasket. It’s an old car, but still drives fine. As it is, I’ve > put more money into new shocks/struts, timing belt, fan relay… oh, > and of course it’s suffering from Paint Woes. It was even in an > accident a few years back. Presently the driver side window likes to > refuse to go down frequently, one of the hubs was damaged after my > sister drove it over a curb (ergo I’ve got a slow leak and as I’m not > totally vigilant, the tire wears a little unevenly)… At any rate, > most everything in the car has been replaced once already (except the > head gasket.) > Well, despite all this, I do happen to like the car. If it weren’t for > the seemingly endless problems its had this last year, I’d have no > problem investing in having the roof professionally repainted. But the > leak is definitely burning off oil at a good rate and I’m worried > about damaging the engine if I keep driving w/o replacing the head > gasket. > I’m definitely not a mechanic; relays I can replace on my own, and I > handle all the small stuff, but I really don’t have the tools or > know-how to feel comfortable replacing the head gasket myself (I > wouldn’t even know where to begin looking for a gasket) So I’m looking > at having this done in a shop, and at this point I’m worrying about > how much this is going to run me, and at this point given the problems > I’ve already got with the car, whether it’s worth it. > Oh, and if anyone got some advice for what to watch out for taking the > car to a shop to have this work done (ie, good questions to ask to > make sure I’m not gonna get ripped off), I’d be greatful. > – D

Response:

> Speaking of head gaskets, I’ll ask for my own 3.0 ‘clunker’ right now. A > few months ago it was determined that the car’s overheating problem > (this was in connection with a failed fan relay) was due to a leaking > head gasket. It’s an old car, but still drives fine. As it is, I’ve put > more money into new shocks/struts, timing belt, fan relay… oh, and of > course it’s suffering from Paint Woes. It was even in an accident a few > years back. Presently the driver side window likes to refuse to go down > frequently, one of the hubs was damaged after my sister drove it over a > curb (ergo I’ve got a slow leak and as I’m not totally vigilant, the > tire wears a little unevenly)… At any rate, most everything in the car > has been replaced once already (except the head gasket.) Well, despite > all this, I do happen to like the car. If it weren’t for the seemingly > endless problems its had this last year, I’d have no problem investing > in having the roof professionally repainted.

H’mm. The ‘89-’95 Spirit Acclaim (and identical ‘90-’94 LeBaron sedan) are excellent cars, to be sure, but at this point it sounds like you’ve got a tired pony on your hands. Seems to me the better idea is to find a lower-miles example of a similar car and get it — they’re not expensive on the used-car market. > wouldn’t even know where to begin looking for a gasket) So I’m looking > at having this done in a shop, and at this point I’m worrying about > how much this is going to run me, and at this point given the problems > I’ve already got with the car, whether it’s worth it.

There *will* be other stuff found that makes no sense not to do while they’re in there doing the head gasket. Some of it will be little, some of it will be not-so-little, but it will add up quickly, and it really won’t make sense not to do it. DS, who now has an extremely nice but *very* overly-invested-in ‘89 D100 pickup…

Response:

Speaking of head gaskets, I’ll ask for my own 3.0 ‘clunker’ right now. A few months ago it was determined that the car’s overheating problem (this was in connection with a failed fan relay) was due to a leaking head gasket. It’s an old car, but still drives fine. As it is, I’ve put more money into new shocks/struts, timing belt, fan relay… oh, and of course it’s suffering from Paint Woes. It was even in an accident a few years back. Presently the driver side window likes to refuse to go down frequently, one of the hubs was damaged after my sister drove it over a curb (ergo I’ve got a slow leak and as I’m not totally vigilant, the tire wears a little unevenly)… At any rate, most everything in the car has been replaced once already (except the head gasket.) Well, despite all this, I do happen to like the car. If it weren’t for the seemingly endless problems its had this last year, I’d have no problem investing in having the roof professionally repainted. But the leak is definitely burning off oil at a good rate and I’m worried about damaging the engine if I keep driving w/o replacing the head gasket. I’m definitely not a mechanic; relays I can replace on my own, and I handle all the small stuff, but I really don’t have the tools or know-how to feel comfortable replacing the head gasket myself (I wouldn’t even know where to begin looking for a gasket) So I’m looking at having this done in a shop, and at this point I’m worrying about how much this is going to run me, and at this point given the problems I’ve already got with the car, whether it’s worth it. Oh, and if anyone got some advice for what to watch out for taking the car to a shop to have this work done (ie, good questions to ask to make sure I’m not gonna get ripped off), I’d be greatful. – D

Response:

Heh, actually this was what led to the head gasket diagnosis – the fan wasn’t kicking on when the engine temp got way up there, so I took it in to an auto repair place that shall remain nameless. They in turn blamed the overheating on the head gasket despite the fact I asked them to check the fan itself. Their reply to the fan was "we can’t check stuff like that" which is rather ridiculous given at the very least they should have been able to use a voltmeter to check the lines and relays and to ensure the motor was working. At any rate, I took the car to a family friend and we ran through the electrical system to the fan – aside from the relay, the fan works fine. Picked up a new relay, snapped it in, and the fan’s been working beautifully since – even took the car on a 300 mile round trip and it kicked on every time it was needed. I just feel a little nostalgic towards this car, plus in the last year alone the shocks, struts, battery, and front brakes have all been replaced. Other replacements/rebuilds/fixes in the past have included radiator, air bag, automatic transmission… you kinda get the idea The peeling paint I can at least fix myself, and it also has a broken gear selector indicator, but that’s just a minor nuisance; I’ve driven the car for so many years now that I shift by feel I guess If I were to buy a used car – and I can guarantee it’d be an Acclaim as I’m very happy with how the car handles in the snow and its performance overall – I’m just worried I’ll end up inheriting the same problems a year or two down the road. Avoiding that by just going ahead and getting the head gasket replaced (and possibly the other "while we’re at it" replacements pending how much money I can put into this) just seems like a better idea. I just figured I’d ask here and get advice from other people rather than go with the gut emotion – D wrote in ten foot tall digital flames: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Make sure you dont just have a bad electric cooling fan.Mine would work >intermitantly It would run very slow or stop, even a junkyard fan did this >so i finally forked over the $180 for a new one and the car does not >overheat at all anymore.This was after replacing everything else cooling >system related.

Response:

Speaking of head gaskets, I’ll ask for my own 3.0 ‘clunker’ right now. A few months ago it was determined that the car’s overheating problem (this was in connection with a failed fan relay) was due to a leaking head gasket. It’s an old car, but still drives fine. As it is, I’ve put more money into new shocks/struts, timing belt, fan relay… oh, and of course it’s suffering from Paint Woes. It was even in an accident a few years back. Presently the driver side window likes to refuse to go down frequently, one of the hubs was damaged after my sister drove it over a curb (ergo I’ve got a slow leak and as I’m not totally vigilant, the tire wears a little unevenly)… At any rate, most everything in the car has been replaced once already (except the head gasket.) Well, despite all this, I do happen to like the car. If it weren’t for the seemingly endless problems its had this last year, I’d have no problem investing in having the roof professionally repainted. But the leak is definitely burning off oil at a good rate and I’m worried about damaging the engine if I keep driving w/o replacing the head gasket. I’m definitely not a mechanic; relays I can replace on my own, and I handle all the small stuff, but I really don’t have the tools or know-how to feel comfortable replacing the head gasket myself (I wouldn’t even know where to begin looking for a gasket) So I’m looking at having this done in a shop, and at this point I’m worrying about how much this is going to run me, and at this point given the problems I’ve already got with the car, whether it’s worth it. Oh, and if anyone got some advice for what to watch out for taking the car to a shop to have this work done (ie, good questions to ask to make sure I’m not gonna get ripped off), I’d be greatful. – D

Response:

> Speaking of head gaskets, I’ll ask for my own 3.0 ‘clunker’ right now. A > few months ago it was determined that the car’s overheating problem > (this was in connection with a failed fan relay) was due to a leaking > head gasket. It’s an old car, but still drives fine. As it is, I’ve put > more money into new shocks/struts, timing belt, fan relay… oh, and of > course it’s suffering from Paint Woes. It was even in an accident a few > years back. Presently the driver side window likes to refuse to go down > frequently, one of the hubs was damaged after my sister drove it over a > curb (ergo I’ve got a slow leak and as I’m not totally vigilant, the > tire wears a little unevenly)… At any rate, most everything in the car > has been replaced once already (except the head gasket.) Well, despite > all this, I do happen to like the car. If it weren’t for the seemingly > endless problems its had this last year, I’d have no problem investing > in having the roof professionally repainted.

H’mm. The ‘89-’95 Spirit Acclaim (and identical ‘90-’94 LeBaron sedan) are excellent cars, to be sure, but at this point it sounds like you’ve got a tired pony on your hands. Seems to me the better idea is to find a lower-miles example of a similar car and get it — they’re not expensive on the used-car market. > wouldn’t even know where to begin looking for a gasket) So I’m looking > at having this done in a shop, and at this point I’m worrying about > how much this is going to run me, and at this point given the problems > I’ve already got with the car, whether it’s worth it.

There *will* be other stuff found that makes no sense not to do while they’re in there doing the head gasket. Some of it will be little, some of it will be not-so-little, but it will add up quickly, and it really won’t make sense not to do it. DS, who now has an extremely nice but *very* overly-invested-in ‘89 D100 pickup…

Response:

Make sure you dont just have a bad electric cooling fan.Mine would work intermitantly It would run very slow or stop, even a junkyard fan did this so i finally forked over the $180 for a new one and the car does not overheat at all anymore.This was after replacing everything else cooling system related.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Speaking of head gaskets, I’ll ask for my own 3.0 ‘clunker’ right now. > A few months ago it was determined that the car’s overheating problem > (this was in connection with a failed fan relay) was due to a leaking > head gasket. It’s an old car, but still drives fine. As it is, I’ve > put more money into new shocks/struts, timing belt, fan relay… oh, > and of course it’s suffering from Paint Woes. It was even in an > accident a few years back. Presently the driver side window likes to > refuse to go down frequently, one of the hubs was damaged after my > sister drove it over a curb (ergo I’ve got a slow leak and as I’m not > totally vigilant, the tire wears a little unevenly)… At any rate, > most everything in the car has been replaced once already (except the > head gasket.) > Well, despite all this, I do happen to like the car. If it weren’t for > the seemingly endless problems its had this last year, I’d have no > problem investing in having the roof professionally repainted. But the > leak is definitely burning off oil at a good rate and I’m worried > about damaging the engine if I keep driving w/o replacing the head > gasket. > I’m definitely not a mechanic; relays I can replace on my own, and I > handle all the small stuff, but I really don’t have the tools or > know-how to feel comfortable replacing the head gasket myself (I > wouldn’t even know where to begin looking for a gasket) So I’m looking > at having this done in a shop, and at this point I’m worrying about > how much this is going to run me, and at this point given the problems > I’ve already got with the car, whether it’s worth it. > Oh, and if anyone got some advice for what to watch out for taking the > car to a shop to have this work done (ie, good questions to ask to > make sure I’m not gonna get ripped off), I’d be greatful. > – D

Response:

Heh, actually this was what led to the head gasket diagnosis – the fan wasn’t kicking on when the engine temp got way up there, so I took it in to an auto repair place that shall remain nameless. They in turn blamed the overheating on the head gasket despite the fact I asked them to check the fan itself. Their reply to the fan was "we can’t check stuff like that" which is rather ridiculous given at the very least they should have been able to use a voltmeter to check the lines and relays and to ensure the motor was working. At any rate, I took the car to a family friend and we ran through the electrical system to the fan – aside from the relay, the fan works fine. Picked up a new relay, snapped it in, and the fan’s been working beautifully since – even took the car on a 300 mile round trip and it kicked on every time it was needed. I just feel a little nostalgic towards this car, plus in the last year alone the shocks, struts, battery, and front brakes have all been replaced. Other replacements/rebuilds/fixes in the past have included radiator, air bag, automatic transmission… you kinda get the idea The peeling paint I can at least fix myself, and it also has a broken gear selector indicator, but that’s just a minor nuisance; I’ve driven the car for so many years now that I shift by feel I guess If I were to buy a used car – and I can guarantee it’d be an Acclaim as I’m very happy with how the car handles in the snow and its performance overall – I’m just worried I’ll end up inheriting the same problems a year or two down the road. Avoiding that by just going ahead and getting the head gasket replaced (and possibly the other "while we’re at it" replacements pending how much money I can put into this) just seems like a better idea. I just figured I’d ask here and get advice from other people rather than go with the gut emotion – D wrote in ten foot tall digital flames: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Make sure you dont just have a bad electric cooling fan.Mine would work >intermitantly It would run very slow or stop, even a junkyard fan did this >so i finally forked over the $180 for a new one and the car does not >overheat at all anymore.This was after replacing everything else cooling >system related.

Response:

Question:

Common doesn’t mean downmarket, does it? See also my other post with German sales stats. DAS — — NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling" —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Either way, I don’t beliece the thread was to do with the humbleness > of the 3 series.  Hell, if the 3 series is that relentlessly > downmarket and as common as shit, especially in its home market, what > exactly is upmarket?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! > can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the >paint? > cheers, > corky > p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe >You’ll learn that in this group it’s a mortal sin to say you’re going to >put an M3 badge or M5 badge on a car that isn’t an M car. >– >-DItalianSalami

Try reading my post again!! ;o)

Response:

EXCUSE ME, don’t condemn the European Focus and Mondeo cars just because the US ones are no good… Otherwise, I agree with you that in Germany the smaller BMWs and Mercs outsell most other brands. Only VW tops them, in fact, with a Golf. Data for 2002: 1.  Golf/Bora    274 000 (after a 6.5% decline over 2001!) 2.  BMW 3    148 000 (about unchanged) 3.  Merc C-Class    125 000 (20% decline!, probably because the new C-Class was coming) 4.  Audi A4    120 000 (+10%) 5.  Opel (GM) Astra    112 000 (-22%) Note that the Merc E-Class also features in the top 10.  As far as I know it always does. A large percentage of the above will have diesel engines. See the table at http://www.pkw-steuer.de/kfz/pkw_neuzulassungen_2002.html DAS — — NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling" —

Thomas)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one >> whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. >The OP’s mild troll worked a sharm, didn’t it Hugh .  I don’t see >anything wrong with dreaming about an M3, do you? Not everyone can >afford one. >Also where on earth do you cook or shop where a 318is is/was a >"cooking" "shopping" car? > You must remember that in Germany these cars are every day transport not the > love of the owner’s life.  They are as common as shit or the lowlier Chevy, Ford > in the US or the Mondeo, Escort, Focus, or GM Opel/Vauxhall Vectra, Corsa crap. > The early 3 series was a kin to the Cortina/Taunus, or in the US the Impala type > of shopping/school run bus.  The only difference is that an estate/wagon version > was never made until the 5 series….. > The same goes for the Mercedes.  All the taxis are Mercs and everywhere in the > world has a merc of some kind converted to a truck/van/wagon or whatever just > for the daily job of moving about this planet. > It us folk that make them something to be desired with the M series and the V8s > and the moans of restricted to 155mph. Like the Mercs – the big ones are > something else whereas the "cooking" 4 pot diesels will do every job you put at > it including taking the kids to school or the rubbish to the dump. > Hugh > Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! > Hugh Gundersen > http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk > Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK > Vyisder Asmeni > Orsisarsis Asderisorsis. > B.Cozderiz > Vunarz > PERORZ

Response:

> time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! > can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the paint? > cheers, > corky > p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe

You’ll learn that in this group it’s a mortal sin to say you’re going to put an M3 badge or M5 badge on a car that isn’t an M car. — -DItalianSalami -Remove Spamsux from Email to Respond

Response:

>> >Also where on earth do you cook or shop where a 318is is/was a > >"cooking" "shopping" car? > You must remember that in Germany these cars are every day transport not the > love of the owner’s life.  They are as common as shit or the lowlier Chevy, Ford > in the US or the Mondeo, Escort, Focus, or GM Opel/Vauxhall Vectra, Corsa crap. >Does that make it illegal for an owner to debadge it?  Because if it’s >as common as muck, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a 316i or loaded >330i.

Of course not – if you want to remove the badges that’s your prerogative. Having said that I am sure there will be some local law saying you cannot in some country or US State. Common as muck or 760I limo loaded ?  I cannot get your drift on that>>>> > The early 3 series was a kin to the Cortina/Taunus, or in the US the Impala type > of shopping/school run bus.  The only difference is that an estate/wagon version > was never made until the 5 series….. >Come on, Hugh .  E30 touring, 1987?

Ok so there was the odd shaped try out at a fast back estate.. remember most looked and ended up "in a state too!" Ha Ha ;>)) > The same goes for the Mercedes.  All the taxis are Mercs and everywhere in the > world has a merc of some kind converted to a truck/van/wagon or whatever just > for the daily job of moving about this planet. >Either way, I don’t beliece the thread was to do with the humbleness >of the 3 series.  Hell, if the 3 series is that relentlessly >downmarket and as common as shit, especially in its home market, what >exactly is upmarket?

I think you are misinterpreting what I actually said.  Most, if not all, manufacturers only export their "best" models because the standard car is not that interesting.  THe Ford Cortina base model was 1300cc 4 speed with plastic seats.  The Super and GXL and 2000E models were the export cars as with the Austin 1100 the base model sold at home but the export model was the super de-lux with bells and whistles. In Germany the Taunus was a 1200 V4 2 door base model and the BMW 3 series was also a 1600cc 2 door plastic seated manual windows no radio runabout.  The BMW export cars are a different kettle of fish.  All the export cars had tinted glass and a sunroof (still no radio yet) and ran on steel wheels with chrome hub caps. It’s us that make them the object of desire.  I want leather seats with electric adjustment, full adjustable steering wheel, built in radio tape + CD, phones, V8 engine speed and more speed and the ability to stop the tank when I want to. The export price of all the bells and whistles + car tax (now discontinued) + cars desirable for the message it gives " Hey look what I have Da Da De Da Da!" Then there are those that almost place the neon sign on the roof to say "Look what a plonker I am Yuppie" Can’t drive for toffee but lower it, chrome it, fancy lights, crazy interior, spoilers (in more ways than air dams) etc. Everybody on this list/newsgroup likes BMW or they wouldn’t be here (????) but don’t get carried away with what a base car is and what an export car is. Remember the first car that BMW badged was made in England and was an Austin 7 clone. Hugh Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK Vyisder Asmeni Orsisarsis Asderisorsis. B.Cozderiz Vunarz PERORZ

Response:

tell me, how many morons do this: (add pinstrips too the car will go much faster) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! > can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the paint? > cheers, > corky > p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe

Response:

> >Also where on earth do you cook or shop where a 318is is/was a >"cooking" "shopping" car? > You must remember that in Germany these cars are every day transport not the > love of the owner’s life.  They are as common as shit or the lowlier Chevy, Ford > in the US or the Mondeo, Escort, Focus, or GM Opel/Vauxhall Vectra, Corsa crap.

Does that make it illegal for an owner to debadge it?  Because if it’s as common as muck, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a 316i or loaded 330i. > The early 3 series was a kin to the Cortina/Taunus, or in the US the Impala type > of shopping/school run bus.  The only difference is that an estate/wagon version > was never made until the 5 series…..

Come on, Hugh .  E30 touring, 1987? > The same goes for the Mercedes.  All the taxis are Mercs and everywhere in the > world has a merc of some kind converted to a truck/van/wagon or whatever just > for the daily job of moving about this planet.

Either way, I don’t beliece the thread was to do with the humbleness of the 3 series.  Hell, if the 3 series is that relentlessly downmarket and as common as shit, especially in its home market, what exactly is upmarket?

Response:

>> Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one > whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. >The OP’s mild troll worked a sharm, didn’t it Hugh .  I don’t see >anything wrong with dreaming about an M3, do you? Not everyone can >afford one. >Also where on earth do you cook or shop where a 318is is/was a >"cooking" "shopping" car?

You must remember that in Germany these cars are every day transport not the love of the owner’s life.  They are as common as shit or the lowlier Chevy, Ford in the US or the Mondeo, Escort, Focus, or GM Opel/Vauxhall Vectra, Corsa crap. The early 3 series was a kin to the Cortina/Taunus, or in the US the Impala type of shopping/school run bus.  The only difference is that an estate/wagon version was never made until the 5 series….. The same goes for the Mercedes.  All the taxis are Mercs and everywhere in the world has a merc of some kind converted to a truck/van/wagon or whatever just for the daily job of moving about this planet. It us folk that make them something to be desired with the M series and the V8s and the moans of restricted to 155mph. Like the Mercs – the big ones are something else whereas the "cooking" 4 pot diesels will do every job you put at it including taking the kids to school or the rubbish to the dump. Hugh Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK Vyisder Asmeni Orsisarsis Asderisorsis. B.Cozderiz Vunarz PERORZ

Response:

I de-badged and left it off – I don’t like any lettering or stickers on my car.  Since my first car, I removed the dealer stickers, etc. – they can pay me if they want me to advertise for them!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> use a hair dryer to heat up the badge and then you will be able to peel the > badge off. > time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 > badge! > can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the > paint? > cheers, > corky > p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> >time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! >>[snip] >>> >p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe >>> Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one >>> whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. >>Wouldn’t it be Kosher to read the post fully and then put the reply in >>the correct place? >Apparently, you’ll have to wait until he finds someone to ask >So why mention it if you aren’t baiting for sarcastic replies? >Hugh >Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Why put that foolish sig there if not painting a bullseye on yourself?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> >time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! >>>[snip] >>>> >p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe >>>> Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one >>>> whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. >>>Wouldn’t it be Kosher to read the post fully and then put the reply in >>>the correct place? >>Apparently, you’ll have to wait until he finds someone to ask >So why mention it if you aren’t baiting for sarcastic replies? >Hugh >Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! >Why put that foolish sig there if not painting a bullseye on yourself?

As it says "Knowing where to find it" – obviously not from you! Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK Vyisder Asmeni Orsisarsis Asderisorsis. B.Cozderiz Vunarz PERORZ

Response:

> Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one > whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car.

The OP’s mild troll worked a sharm, didn’t it Hugh .  I don’t see anything wrong with dreaming about an M3, do you? Not everyone can afford one. Also where on earth do you cook or shop where a 318is is/was a "cooking" "shopping" car?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>> >time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! >>>>[snip] >>>>> >p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe >>>>> Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one >>>>> whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. >>>>Wouldn’t it be Kosher to read the post fully and then put the reply in >>>>the correct place? >>>Apparently, you’ll have to wait until he finds someone to ask >>So why mention it if you aren’t baiting for sarcastic replies? >>Hugh >>Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! >Why put that foolish sig there if not painting a bullseye on yourself? >As it says "Knowing where to find it" – obviously not from you! >Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

lmao. geeze, what an effwit…

Response:

>time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! >can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the paint?

The best suggestion I heard was to use dental floss. I used it to remove a good-luck horseshoe that the previous owner of my car stuck on the wood inserts on the dashboard Cheers, Jan —  /"  Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English)   /  http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si"   X   ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings.  /  I’m a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread.

Response:

Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. Hugh >time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! >can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the paint? >cheers, >corky >p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK Vyisder Asmeni Orsisarsis Asderisorsis. B.Cozderiz Vunarz PERORZ

Response:

>>time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge!

I am really interested in doing this to one of my 525i’s.  Not an M3 badge, though, but an M5 one.  How much faster do you think the car will be with the new badge on it? Also, I think that I should get a few more horsepower if I put on an M steering wheel and rear view mirrors.  Maybe if I get enough of these things changed, I can keep up with the Civics around here. I think most of us by now realize that the more of this "stuff", like big rear wings, exhaust extensions, racing decals, etc. a car has on it, the *slower* it will be. It must have something to do with the extra weight and drag that this stuff puts on the small engines these cars have. You will probably discover that if you do put stuff like this on your car, you will get more challenges from other drivers at stoplights that will end up kicking your butt.  Is it better to keep losing to "inferior" cars, or to ignore their challenges?   Dick Schneiders

Response:

> >time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! [snip] >p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe > Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one > whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car.

Wouldn’t it be Kosher to read the post fully and then put the reply in the correct place? — Scott Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! >[snip] >> >p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe >> Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one >> whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. >Wouldn’t it be Kosher to read the post fully and then put the reply in >the correct place? >Apparently, you’ll have to wait until he finds someone to ask

So why mention it if you aren’t baiting for sarcastic replies? Hugh Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it! Hugh Gundersen http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK Vyisder Asmeni Orsisarsis Asderisorsis. B.Cozderiz Vunarz PERORZ

Response:

>Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about >one >whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. >Hugh

Thanks for the advice Hugh!  I’m going to take my student loans, go rob a bank, and buy an M3!  :o) i love newsgroup answers, corky

Response:

>> >time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! >[snip] > >p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe > Wouldn’t it be Kosher to actually buy an M3 instead of just dreaming about one > whilst driving a cooking 4 pot shopping car. >Wouldn’t it be Kosher to read the post fully and then put the reply in >the correct place?

Apparently, you’ll have to wait until he finds someone to ask

Response:

> >>time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! > I am really interested in doing this to one of my 525i’s.  Not an M3 badge, > though, but an M5 one.  How much faster do you think the car will be with the > new badge on it?

It will be faster ‘cos the M5 badge has a lower Cd than the 525i one.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! >I am really interested in doing this to one of my 525i’s.  Not an M3 badge, >though, but an M5 one.  How much faster do you think the car will be with the >new badge on it? >Also, I think that I should get a few more horsepower if I put on an M steering >wheel and rear view mirrors.  Maybe if I get enough of these things changed, I >can keep up with the Civics around here. >I think most of us by now realize that the more of this "stuff", like big rear >wings, exhaust extensions, racing decals, etc. a car has on it, the *slower* it >will be. >It must have something to do with the extra weight and drag that this stuff >puts on the small engines these cars have. >You will probably discover that if you do put stuff like this on your car, you >will get more challenges from other drivers at stoplights that will end up >kicking your butt.  Is it better to keep losing to "inferior" cars, or to >ignore their challenges?   >Dick Schneiders

   I normally just look at them and shake my head. I’ve been asked if I’m afraid to race and my answer is "No, I just don’t consider a stoplight to stoplight run as racing.". Actually had one asshole in a souped up Prelude decide he could outrun me anytime. Seems he could wind that turbo up in a straight line, but he couldn’t hold curves real well….

Response:

Yup, Use some warm water too from a kettle and pour that over the badge then GENTLY pull from the top down on the letters. You will need some cleaner to remove the glue that gets left behind. DONT use a sharpe knife use a plastic one to get the tops to come away and your set. I’ve done a few now and no issues BUT on older cars the badge will when cleaned off leave the original paint color and you might find you get an outline from them — t-cut or whatever you have will get rid of that. But as always YMMV. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> use a hair dryer to heat up the badge and then you will be able to peel the > badge off. > time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 > badge! > can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the > paint? > cheers, > corky > p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe

Response:

time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the paint? cheers, corky p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe

Response:

use a hair dryer to heat up the badge and then you will be able to peel the badge off.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> time to take off the chrome 318is badge at the back and put on an M3 badge! > can anyone offer any advice about how to remove it without damaging the paint? > cheers, > corky > p.s. i would never really put M3 badges on a 318is!!  hehe

Response:

Question:

Nope, 60 Hz like you guys.  I think primarily Europe is 50 Hz though. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Newsgroups: alt.home.repair >I would recommend replacing the banged up units with new ones.  I >would suggest using same capacity, and if it’s a room where ther is a >lot of trafic to the outdoors, size it up a notch; replace a 1500W >with a 1750W.  Capacity and physical size vary by manufacturer.  I >would also recommend an electronic thermostat for temp accuracy.  For >a location where people are typically sitting eg: living room, there >are some thermostats that have proportional type capacity.  See at >this link: www.aubetech.com . They have a model thermostat TH-104 that >I have in my living room and I love it.  What it does, it cuts down >the capacity sent to the baseboards in steps of about 25% to the point >where it maintains the temp in the room.  It doesn’t completely >shutoff unless you turn it down manually or the setpoint is to be >exceeded.  The baseboards stay lukwarm all the time.  I have yet to >see a more comfortable heat (except for radiant of course).  I have a >few honeywell electronic thermostats, but I don’t like as much.  The >problem with conventionnal thermostats (typically the ones you hear >click on and off) is that the temp is usually not well calibrated, and >the deadband of the thermostat can be as much as 6 to 8 Deg F;  and >that’s what render people uncomfortable. >Good Luck!! >Unfortunately, I don’t see an American version – those triac-based t-stats are >good for 240v single pole. Our 240v is derived via 2-poles, or 2 hot legs. >Also, aren’t you guyus on 50 HZ? >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >.

Response:

One thing I forgot,  you can easily convert a 4 wire system to a two wire, it explains it all in the package with the thermostat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Newsgroups: alt.home.repair >I would recommend replacing the banged up units with new ones.  I >would suggest using same capacity, and if it’s a room where ther is a >lot of trafic to the outdoors, size it up a notch; replace a 1500W >with a 1750W.  Capacity and physical size vary by manufacturer.  I >would also recommend an electronic thermostat for temp accuracy.  For >a location where people are typically sitting eg: living room, there >are some thermostats that have proportional type capacity.  See at >this link: www.aubetech.com . They have a model thermostat TH-104 that >I have in my living room and I love it.  What it does, it cuts down >the capacity sent to the baseboards in steps of about 25% to the point >where it maintains the temp in the room.  It doesn’t completely >shutoff unless you turn it down manually or the setpoint is to be >exceeded.  The baseboards stay lukwarm all the time.  I have yet to >see a more comfortable heat (except for radiant of course).  I have a >few honeywell electronic thermostats, but I don’t like as much.  The >problem with conventionnal thermostats (typically the ones you hear >click on and off) is that the temp is usually not well calibrated, and >the deadband of the thermostat can be as much as 6 to 8 Deg F;  and >that’s what render people uncomfortable. >Good Luck!! >Unfortunately, I don’t see an American version – those triac-based t-stats are >good for 240v single pole. Our 240v is derived via 2-poles, or 2 hot legs. >Also, aren’t you guyus on 50 HZ? >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >.

Response:

>My house is entirely heated with electric baseboard heating (I’ll try to >refrain from cursing it too badly), and the heaters are pretty ancient.   >I’d like to replace them, but a lot of them seem to be odd sizes.  For >example, the ones in my little boy’s nursery were 40" long, and one in a >bathroom is 28". >The problem is, of course, is that the local Home Depot seems to carry >different sizes.  They’ve got 30", 36"–basically, what seem to be more >"standard" sizes. >Anyone know of any places online I might be able to direct-order these >seemingly odder sizes of heaters?  If I could get them locally (I live in >Northern VA), that’d be great, but just not sure where to look. >Appreciate any help anyone could give me.

I would recommend replacing the banged up units with new ones.  I would suggest using same capacity, and if it’s a room where ther is a lot of trafic to the outdoors, size it up a notch; replace a 1500W with a 1750W.  Capacity and physical size vary by manufacturer.  I would also recommend an electronic thermostat for temp accuracy.  For a location where people are typically sitting eg: living room, there are some thermostats that have proportional type capacity.  See at this link: www.aubetech.com . They have a model thermostat TH-104 that I have in my living room and I love it.  What it does, it cuts down the capacity sent to the baseboards in steps of about 25% to the point where it maintains the temp in the room.  It doesn’t completely shutoff unless you turn it down manually or the setpoint is to be exceeded.  The baseboards stay lukwarm all the time.  I have yet to see a more comfortable heat (except for radiant of course).  I have a few honeywell electronic thermostats, but I don’t like as much.  The problem with conventionnal thermostats (typically the ones you hear click on and off) is that the temp is usually not well calibrated, and the deadband of the thermostat can be as much as 6 to 8 Deg F;  and that’s what render people uncomfortable. Good Luck!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Newsgroups: alt.home.repair >I would recommend replacing the banged up units with new ones.  I >would suggest using same capacity, and if it’s a room where ther is a >lot of trafic to the outdoors, size it up a notch; replace a 1500W >with a 1750W.  Capacity and physical size vary by manufacturer.  I >would also recommend an electronic thermostat for temp accuracy.  For >a location where people are typically sitting eg: living room, there >are some thermostats that have proportional type capacity.  See at >this link: www.aubetech.com . They have a model thermostat TH-104 that >I have in my living room and I love it.  What it does, it cuts down >the capacity sent to the baseboards in steps of about 25% to the point >where it maintains the temp in the room.  It doesn’t completely >shutoff unless you turn it down manually or the setpoint is to be >exceeded.  The baseboards stay lukwarm all the time.  I have yet to >see a more comfortable heat (except for radiant of course).  I have a >few honeywell electronic thermostats, but I don’t like as much.  The >problem with conventionnal thermostats (typically the ones you hear >click on and off) is that the temp is usually not well calibrated, and >the deadband of the thermostat can be as much as 6 to 8 Deg F;  and >that’s what render people uncomfortable. >Good Luck!!

Unfortunately, I don’t see an American version – those triac-based t-stats are good for 240v single pole. Our 240v is derived via 2-poles, or 2 hot legs. Also, aren’t you guyus on 50 HZ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Response:

    If you local people will not sell you one (it sounds like you have contacted contractors not an supplier) then try on line.  The internet has almost anything. Google will find it for you. — Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1  It’s Irish Math

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->     Go to a real HVAC outlet, not a discount house.  You don’t want >     the > stuff the box stores sell anyway.  Pay a little more and get the right > ones, they come in almost any size. > Not to sound like a complete ignoramus, but I assume HVAC refers to heat- > air conditioning outlets?  Not sure where I’d find one, actually.  Called > a pair of places out here that offered to sell them to me only if I let > them install them. >     Before doing that however, what don’t you like about what you >     have? > Maybe you need something different.  Too much or too little capacity > will not be comfortable.  Also the control system makes a big > difference. > Well, fundamentally I don’t like that they’re baseboard heaters and their > presence by and large limits the way I can arrange my house.  I’ve also > got an eight-month old, so I’m worried about him grabbing and such. > Basically, I’m sort of generally annoyed at the heaters in general. > They’re by and large pretty beat up, and even when freshly painted still > don’t look quite right.  Would like a few new ones for certain rooms, > just to spruce things up a bit. > Thanks for your response, and everyone else’s.  Going to have to hang out > in this ng on a regular basis, lots of great information here. > — > Dan Iwerks, slave to the masses, loves Vapor Trails. > The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me > responsible for the fact that you’re a complete idiot.

Response:

>Some of the newer electric heating elements may be more efficient than the >older ones.

Bullshit. Electric heat is 100% efficient. >  Also, if you have older elements, and want >to replace them, you could purchase just the elements and you won’t have to >replace the baseboard backing.

9 times out of 10, when people want to replace electric baseboard it’s because the exterior shell is looking all banged up and old fashioned. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Response:

>     Go to a real HVAC outlet, not a discount house.  You don’t want >     the > stuff the box stores sell anyway.  Pay a little more and get the right > ones, they come in almost any size.

Not to sound like a complete ignoramus, but I assume HVAC refers to heat- air conditioning outlets?  Not sure where I’d find one, actually.  Called a pair of places out here that offered to sell them to me only if I let them install them. >     Before doing that however, what don’t you like about what you >     have? > Maybe you need something different.  Too much or too little capacity > will not be comfortable.  Also the control system makes a big > difference.

Well, fundamentally I don’t like that they’re baseboard heaters and their presence by and large limits the way I can arrange my house.  I’ve also got an eight-month old, so I’m worried about him grabbing and such.   Basically, I’m sort of generally annoyed at the heaters in general.   They’re by and large pretty beat up, and even when freshly painted still don’t look quite right.  Would like a few new ones for certain rooms, just to spruce things up a bit. Thanks for your response, and everyone else’s.  Going to have to hang out in this ng on a regular basis, lots of great information here. — Dan Iwerks, slave to the masses, loves Vapor Trails. The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me responsible for the fact that you’re a complete idiot.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My house is entirely heated with electric baseboard heating (I’ll try to > refrain from cursing it too badly), and the heaters are pretty ancient. > I’d like to replace them, but a lot of them seem to be odd sizes.  For > example, the ones in my little boy’s nursery were 40" long, and one in a > bathroom is 28". > The problem is, of course, is that the local Home Depot seems to carry > different sizes.  They’ve got 30", 36"–basically, what seem to be more > "standard" sizes. > Anyone know of any places online I might be able to direct-order these > seemingly odder sizes of heaters?  If I could get them locally (I live in > Northern VA), that’d be great, but just not sure where to look. > Appreciate any help anyone could give me. > Some of the newer electric heating elements may be more efficient than the > older ones.

    All electric resistance heating elements are exactly 100% efficent, no more and no less. — Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1  It’s Irish Math – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Also, you could take the cover off the baseboards that you > have, and check the heating element to see if it is dirty, and maybe clean > it.  The elements can be removed, but turn off the power to the heating > system before attempting this.  Also, if you have older elements, and want > to replace them, you could purchase just the elements and you won’t have to > replace the baseboard backing.  You could then just put in an element of > whatever length you can get into the baseboard backing.  If you replace any > wiring, be sure it is of the heat resistant type insulation, like the TFE > rating.

Response:

I had baseboard heat in my old house we put a slider in place of a window and had to replace the baseboard with a flush mount wall unit it seemed to work much better since it had a fan and was able to move the air in the room. It was a little noisy but not much and gaining the wall space was nice, funny thing was we put a wall mount unit in our sunroom and it was so quiet you could not hear it! big box stores have them and they are usually adjustable as far as wattage so you could match up with your current units you would have to add some baseboard but you would pick up a bunch of wall space! In my old house we had a unit behind the TV so I had disconnected that on since it was in series with another unit! Then there was another one behind the office desk! etc.. Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My house is entirely heated with electric baseboard heating (I’ll try to > refrain from cursing it too badly), and the heaters are pretty ancient. > I’d like to replace them, but a lot of them seem to be odd sizes.  For > example, the ones in my little boy’s nursery were 40" long, and one in a > bathroom is 28". > The problem is, of course, is that the local Home Depot seems to carry > different sizes.  They’ve got 30", 36"–basically, what seem to be more > "standard" sizes. > Anyone know of any places online I might be able to direct-order these > seemingly odder sizes of heaters?  If I could get them locally (I live in > Northern VA), that’d be great, but just not sure where to look. > Appreciate any help anyone could give me. > — > Dan Iwerks, slave to the masses, loves Vapor Trails. > The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me > responsible for the fact that you’re a complete idiot.

Response:

If your heaters are from a company still in business, you’ll probably be able to purchase the new "guts" (The parts you see) or frames from a plumbing or electrical supply house. Tip: – If you MUST paint baseboards – don’t use latex! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Go to a real HVAC outlet, not a discount house.  You don’t want the >stuff the box stores sell anyway.  Pay a little more and get the right ones, >they come in almost any size. >    Before doing that however, what don’t you like about what you have? >Maybe you need something different.  Too much or too little capacity will >not be comfortable.  Also the control system makes a big difference. >– >Joseph E. Meehan >26 + 6 = 1  It’s Irish Math > My house is entirely heated with electric baseboard heating (I’ll try to > refrain from cursing it too badly), and the heaters are pretty ancient. > I’d like to replace them, but a lot of them seem to be odd sizes.  For > example, the ones in my little boy’s nursery were 40" long, and one in a > bathroom is 28". > The problem is, of course, is that the local Home Depot seems to carry > different sizes.  They’ve got 30", 36"–basically, what seem to be more > "standard" sizes. > Anyone know of any places online I might be able to direct-order these > seemingly odder sizes of heaters?  If I could get them locally (I live in > Northern VA), that’d be great, but just not sure where to look. > Appreciate any help anyone could give me. > — > Dan Iwerks

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My house is entirely heated with electric baseboard heating (I’ll try to > refrain from cursing it too badly), and the heaters are pretty ancient. > I’d like to replace them, but a lot of them seem to be odd sizes.  For > example, the ones in my little boy’s nursery were 40" long, and one in a > bathroom is 28". > The problem is, of course, is that the local Home Depot seems to carry > different sizes.  They’ve got 30", 36"–basically, what seem to be more > "standard" sizes. > Anyone know of any places online I might be able to direct-order these > seemingly odder sizes of heaters?  If I could get them locally (I live in > Northern VA), that’d be great, but just not sure where to look. > Appreciate any help anyone could give me.

Some of the newer electric heating elements may be more efficient than the older ones.  Also, you could take the cover off the baseboards that you have, and check the heating element to see if it is dirty, and maybe clean it.  The elements can be removed, but turn off the power to the heating system before attempting this.  Also, if you have older elements, and want to replace them, you could purchase just the elements and you won’t have to replace the baseboard backing.  You could then just put in an element of whatever length you can get into the baseboard backing.  If you replace any wiring, be sure it is of the heat resistant type insulation, like the TFE rating.

Response:

    Go to a real HVAC outlet, not a discount house.  You don’t want the stuff the box stores sell anyway.  Pay a little more and get the right ones, they come in almost any size.     Before doing that however, what don’t you like about what you have? Maybe you need something different.  Too much or too little capacity will not be comfortable.  Also the control system makes a big difference. — Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1  It’s Irish Math

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My house is entirely heated with electric baseboard heating (I’ll try to > refrain from cursing it too badly), and the heaters are pretty ancient. > I’d like to replace them, but a lot of them seem to be odd sizes.  For > example, the ones in my little boy’s nursery were 40" long, and one in a > bathroom is 28". > The problem is, of course, is that the local Home Depot seems to carry > different sizes.  They’ve got 30", 36"–basically, what seem to be more > "standard" sizes. > Anyone know of any places online I might be able to direct-order these > seemingly odder sizes of heaters?  If I could get them locally (I live in > Northern VA), that’d be great, but just not sure where to look. > Appreciate any help anyone could give me. > — > Dan Iwerks, slave to the masses, loves Vapor Trails. > The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me > responsible for the fact that you’re a complete idiot.

Response:

My house is entirely heated with electric baseboard heating (I’ll try to refrain from cursing it too badly), and the heaters are pretty ancient.   I’d like to replace them, but a lot of them seem to be odd sizes.  For example, the ones in my little boy’s nursery were 40" long, and one in a bathroom is 28". The problem is, of course, is that the local Home Depot seems to carry different sizes.  They’ve got 30", 36"–basically, what seem to be more "standard" sizes. Anyone know of any places online I might be able to direct-order these seemingly odder sizes of heaters?  If I could get them locally (I live in Northern VA), that’d be great, but just not sure where to look. Appreciate any help anyone could give me. — Dan Iwerks, slave to the masses, loves Vapor Trails. The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me responsible for the fact that you’re a complete idiot.

Response:

Question:

> The 2004 elections and a Democrat in the White House cannot come >soon enough!

AMEN!!! >Yep. I have considered being cryogenically frozen until Bush gets >kicked outof office. — >DFM

This whole thing is so ridiculous that I don’t whether to laugh or cry! Why don’t we cryogenically freeze BUSH til he gets kicked out of office? Susan

Response:

> > So will a mist of deadly chemicals evaporate in 2-3 days folks? Will we > all end up with carbon monoxide poisoning in our hermetically sealed > rooms?  Do we seal just the windows and doors?  What about the electrical > outlets?  The exhaust fans in the stove & bathroom, openings around pipes? > Who thinks up this crap? > I figure maybe I’ll save some tape for the next emergency and just seal my > mouth and nose.

In which case you’d never need to worry about the next one! <g> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> miguel > — > Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

>> So will a mist of deadly chemicals evaporate in 2-3 days folks? Will we > all end up with carbon monoxide poisoning in our hermetically sealed > rooms?  Do we seal just the windows and doors?  What about the electrical > outlets?  The exhaust fans in the stove & bathroom, openings around pipes? > Who thinks up this crap? > I figure maybe I’ll save some tape for the next emergency and just seal my > mouth and nose.

Could you help ‘arkadya’ to put his on properly ..?   — Desmond Coughlan http: // www . zeouane . org

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true?

Not in Los Angeles!  (Can’t speak for the entire country, but it sounds unlikely.)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true? > — > Marie Lewis > Sort of, but not exactly.  They’re speaking generally.  Because of > considerable "chatter" picked up by intelligence, they believe that Al Qaida > still intends to carry out strikes in the US on an ongoing basis.  And > because the liklihood of attacks is considered high, you should be prepared. > But this is speaking ongoing…..they’re not exactly telling everyone to run > out and stock up. > FYI, they said some of these same things in preparation of Y2K.

And plenty of unscrupulous people made money off of people’s irrational fears then, too!  (I don’t say the "fear" is entirely irrational, this time, but not knowing when or where or how such an attack might come, it seems silly to worry unduly about something that may never occur.

Response:

>  Wine and cheese.

And ice cream (even though you’d have to eat it pretty fast if the power were knocked out). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is >> > telling all >> > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and >> > also >> > have window tape. >> > Is this true? >> Duck and cover. > Pork and mint sauce. > — > http://www.ellieclemens.com > "It’s not a game, it’s not over." > Jean-Pierre Raffarin

Response:

> Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make > disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble > a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans > to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers. > The USA is a huge country and the terrorists do not have the capacity to put a > poison gas cloud over all of North America.  People in small town America > should enjoy their security. > The 2004 elections and a Democrat in the White House cannot come soon enough!

If they happen!  (I realize I sound a bit paranoid, but this "Office of Home Security" and the matter-of-fact way Americans seem to be accepting it has me thoroughly spooked.)

Response:

> > Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make > disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble > a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans > to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers. > Wouldn’t we have to stockpile a lot of oxygen too?

Right!  (And stop smoking, too.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> miguel > — > Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

> >Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all >its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also >have window tape. >Is this true? > yes, but what does this have to do with travel?

Well, Mr. Doe, it might well deter European visitors from visiting our shores, don’t you think?

Response:

Hell, I’m getting on a plane  and going to Italy for the month….where I can at least be poisoned with garlic on the side.   will In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all >its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also >have window tape. >Is this true? > yes, but what does this have to do with travel?

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape.

They did indeed say this on the evening news tonight, along with a graphic of what food and water looks like!  I’m not kidding!!

Response:

 Wine and cheese. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all >>its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also >>have window tape. >>Is this true? >Duck and cover. >Pork and mint sauce.

– http://www.ellieclemens.com "It’s not a game, it’s not over." Jean-Pierre Raffarin

Response:

Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers. The USA is a huge country and the terrorists do not have the capacity to put a poison gas cloud over all of North America.  People in small town America should enjoy their security. The 2004 elections and a Democrat in the White House cannot come soon enough!

Response:

> Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make > disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble > a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans > to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers.

Wouldn’t we have to stockpile a lot of oxygen too? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

>Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all >its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also >have window tape. >Is this true?

Dunno.  But as a true patriot, I think I’ll store up a three-day supply of Doritos and beer. C. "did you bring me my Cheez Wiz, boy?" Unit #02582:  Endangered Old-Growth Redwood Toothpick Artisans, LLC [TINEOGRTALLC] —  Frivolity is a stern taskmaster.

Response:

> The 2004 elections and a Democrat in the White House cannot come soon enough!

Yep. I have considered being cryogenically frozen until Bush gets kicked out of office. — DFM

Response:

>> Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make > disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble > a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans > to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers.

Apparently we are supposed to seal ourselves in a room for 2-3 days with plastic sheeting and duct tape in case of a chemical warfare attack.  This is right up there with getting under a door in case of a nuclear attack…which FEMA suggested some years ago…. Hey it’s chocolate week on Food TV and Big Fat Greek Week on the Travel Channel, so we’ll just buy lots of candy bars, pita and tzatziki, seal out the world and veg out in front of the tube.   Oh, heck, we’ll get some library books too.  At least it’s days off from work.  So will a mist of deadly chemicals evaporate in 2-3 days folks? Will we all end up with carbon monoxide poisoning in our hermetically sealed rooms?  Do we seal just the windows and doors?  What about the electrical outlets?  The exhaust fans in the stove & bathroom, openings around pipes?   Who thinks up this crap?  I am thinking it might be good to just stay sealed up until the 2004 elections.

Response:

> So will a mist of deadly chemicals evaporate in 2-3 days folks? Will we > all end up with carbon monoxide poisoning in our hermetically sealed > rooms?  Do we seal just the windows and doors?  What about the electrical > outlets?  The exhaust fans in the stove & bathroom, openings around pipes? > Who thinks up this crap?

I figure maybe I’ll save some tape for the next emergency and just seal my mouth and nose. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also have window tape. Is this true? — Marie Lewis

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true?

Duck and cover. — Trish Dublin, Ireland

Response:

Yeah the snow storms this time of year can be pretty severe.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true? > — > Marie Lewis

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape.

YES, You didnt know that? We been bunkering down for the last month. Never Forgive, Never Forget                 9-11-01

Response:

>> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true? > Duck and cover.

Pork and mint sauce. — Desmond Coughlan http: // www . zeouane . org

Response:

>>> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is >> telling all its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for >> three days and also have window tape. >> Is this true? > Duck and cover. > Pork and mint sauce.

It says "Duck or Grouse" in my pub. — Cheers, Harvey ….who’s beaming…. For e-mail, harvey becomes whhvs.

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true? > — > Marie Lewis

Sort of, but not exactly.  They’re speaking generally.  Because of considerable "chatter" picked up by intelligence, they believe that Al Qaida still intends to carry out strikes in the US on an ongoing basis.  And because the liklihood of attacks is considered high, you should be prepared. But this is speaking ongoing…..they’re not exactly telling everyone to run out and stock up. FYI, they said some of these same things in preparation of Y2K.

Response:

Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also have window tape. Is this true? — Marie Lewis

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true?

Duck and cover. — Trish Dublin, Ireland

Response:

Yeah the snow storms this time of year can be pretty severe.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true? > — > Marie Lewis

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape.

YES, You didnt know that? We been bunkering down for the last month. Never Forgive, Never Forget                 9-11-01

Response:

>> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true? > Duck and cover.

Pork and mint sauce. — Desmond Coughlan http: // www . zeouane . org

Response:

>>> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is >> telling all its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for >> three days and also have window tape. >> Is this true? > Duck and cover. > Pork and mint sauce.

It says "Duck or Grouse" in my pub. — Cheers, Harvey ….who’s beaming…. For e-mail, harvey becomes whhvs.

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true? > — > Marie Lewis

Sort of, but not exactly.  They’re speaking generally.  Because of considerable "chatter" picked up by intelligence, they believe that Al Qaida still intends to carry out strikes in the US on an ongoing basis.  And because the liklihood of attacks is considered high, you should be prepared. But this is speaking ongoing…..they’re not exactly telling everyone to run out and stock up. FYI, they said some of these same things in preparation of Y2K.

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape.

They did indeed say this on the evening news tonight, along with a graphic of what food and water looks like!  I’m not kidding!!

Response:

 Wine and cheese. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all >>its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also >>have window tape. >>Is this true? >Duck and cover. >Pork and mint sauce.

– http://www.ellieclemens.com "It’s not a game, it’s not over." Jean-Pierre Raffarin

Response:

Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers. The USA is a huge country and the terrorists do not have the capacity to put a poison gas cloud over all of North America.  People in small town America should enjoy their security. The 2004 elections and a Democrat in the White House cannot come soon enough!

Response:

> Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make > disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble > a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans > to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers.

Wouldn’t we have to stockpile a lot of oxygen too? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

>Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all >its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also >have window tape. >Is this true?

Dunno.  But as a true patriot, I think I’ll store up a three-day supply of Doritos and beer. C. "did you bring me my Cheez Wiz, boy?" Unit #02582:  Endangered Old-Growth Redwood Toothpick Artisans, LLC [TINEOGRTALLC] —  Frivolity is a stern taskmaster.

Response:

> The 2004 elections and a Democrat in the White House cannot come soon enough!

Yep. I have considered being cryogenically frozen until Bush gets kicked out of office. — DFM

Response:

>> Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make > disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble > a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans > to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers.

Apparently we are supposed to seal ourselves in a room for 2-3 days with plastic sheeting and duct tape in case of a chemical warfare attack.  This is right up there with getting under a door in case of a nuclear attack…which FEMA suggested some years ago…. Hey it’s chocolate week on Food TV and Big Fat Greek Week on the Travel Channel, so we’ll just buy lots of candy bars, pita and tzatziki, seal out the world and veg out in front of the tube.   Oh, heck, we’ll get some library books too.  At least it’s days off from work.  So will a mist of deadly chemicals evaporate in 2-3 days folks? Will we all end up with carbon monoxide poisoning in our hermetically sealed rooms?  Do we seal just the windows and doors?  What about the electrical outlets?  The exhaust fans in the stove & bathroom, openings around pipes?   Who thinks up this crap?  I am thinking it might be good to just stay sealed up until the 2004 elections.

Response:

> So will a mist of deadly chemicals evaporate in 2-3 days folks? Will we > all end up with carbon monoxide poisoning in our hermetically sealed > rooms?  Do we seal just the windows and doors?  What about the electrical > outlets?  The exhaust fans in the stove & bathroom, openings around pipes? > Who thinks up this crap?

I figure maybe I’ll save some tape for the next emergency and just seal my mouth and nose. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

Hell, I’m getting on a plane  and going to Italy for the month….where I can at least be poisoned with garlic on the side.   will In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all >its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also >have window tape. >Is this true? > yes, but what does this have to do with travel?

Response:

>> So will a mist of deadly chemicals evaporate in 2-3 days folks? Will we > all end up with carbon monoxide poisoning in our hermetically sealed > rooms?  Do we seal just the windows and doors?  What about the electrical > outlets?  The exhaust fans in the stove & bathroom, openings around pipes? > Who thinks up this crap? > I figure maybe I’ll save some tape for the next emergency and just seal my > mouth and nose.

Could you help ‘arkadya’ to put his on properly ..?   — Desmond Coughlan http: // www . zeouane . org

Response:

> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true?

Not in Los Angeles!  (Can’t speak for the entire country, but it sounds unlikely.)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also > have window tape. > Is this true? > — > Marie Lewis > Sort of, but not exactly.  They’re speaking generally.  Because of > considerable "chatter" picked up by intelligence, they believe that Al Qaida > still intends to carry out strikes in the US on an ongoing basis.  And > because the liklihood of attacks is considered high, you should be prepared. > But this is speaking ongoing…..they’re not exactly telling everyone to run > out and stock up. > FYI, they said some of these same things in preparation of Y2K.

And plenty of unscrupulous people made money off of people’s irrational fears then, too!  (I don’t say the "fear" is entirely irrational, this time, but not knowing when or where or how such an attack might come, it seems silly to worry unduly about something that may never occur.

Response:

>  Wine and cheese.

And ice cream (even though you’d have to eat it pretty fast if the power were knocked out). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is >> > telling all >> > its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and >> > also >> > have window tape. >> > Is this true? >> Duck and cover. > Pork and mint sauce. > — > http://www.ellieclemens.com > "It’s not a game, it’s not over." > Jean-Pierre Raffarin

Response:

> Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make > disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble > a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans > to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers. > The USA is a huge country and the terrorists do not have the capacity to put a > poison gas cloud over all of North America.  People in small town America > should enjoy their security. > The 2004 elections and a Democrat in the White House cannot come soon enough!

If they happen!  (I realize I sound a bit paranoid, but this "Office of Home Security" and the matter-of-fact way Americans seem to be accepting it has me thoroughly spooked.)

Response:

> > Yes, unfortunately the administration is encouraging all Americans to make > disaster kits. Since I live three blocks from the White House, I will assemble > a small disaster kit. However, it seems ridiculous to encourage all Americans > to prepare for terrorism by stockpiling duct tape and plastic window barriers. > Wouldn’t we have to stockpile a lot of oxygen too?

Right!  (And stop smoking, too.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> miguel > — > Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

> >Today it has been announced on TV in the UK that the USA is telling all >its citizens to lay in food and water supplies for three days and also >have window tape. >Is this true? > yes, but what does this have to do with travel?

Well, Mr. Doe, it might well deter European visitors from visiting our shores, don’t you think?

Response:

> > So will a mist of deadly chemicals evaporate in 2-3 days folks? Will we > all end up with carbon monoxide poisoning in our hermetically sealed > rooms?  Do we seal just the windows and doors?  What about the electrical > outlets?  The exhaust fans in the stove & bathroom, openings around pipes? > Who thinks up this crap? > I figure maybe I’ll save some tape for the next emergency and just seal my > mouth and nose.

In which case you’d never need to worry about the next one! <g> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> miguel > — > Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

> The 2004 elections and a Democrat in the White House cannot come >soon enough!

AMEN!!! >Yep. I have considered being cryogenically frozen until Bush gets >kicked outof office. — >DFM

This whole thing is so ridiculous that I don’t whether to laugh or cry! Why don’t we cryogenically freeze BUSH til he gets kicked out of office? Susan

Response:

Question:

More insulation? Maybe insulate the garage ceiling.

Response:

Many times it is as simple as the registers are not balanced. Just went through this on a customers split level, and the upper floors were hot…unbearable, while the lower floor was great. Found all the registers open all the way, and with some work…about an hours worth of balancing and toying with airflow, the home is now the same temp, give or take 2 to 5 degrees from each floor. Remember, the closer to the air handler, the more airflow you will have…close those down a bit, and get the air moving to the upper floors..leave those open fully, and work your way back..adjusting the amount of air as you go in each register…you may even find that the ones closest to the air handler are almost shut, but most of the time, thats not going to be an issue.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know, I know. This topic has been beat to death both in this newsgroup, > as well as alt.hvac, but here’s the situation. > The A/C works great downstairs. It’s almost too cool at times on the > lower level. However, as many on this NG have described before, the > A/C has a hard time cooling the upstairs bedrooms and home-office. > Some of the upstairs air registers blow a nice steady stream of cool > air, while others seem to move very little air. Even given that, on a > hot day with outdoor temps in the mid-90s, the upstairs temperature > will still drop to between 75 to 78 degrees. Not too bad, but I like a > really cool room for sleeping. So far, I’ve tried the Equalizer EQ2 > register booster (made by Suncourt?), but I can’t really tell if it is > accomplishing much. I’ve also closed down some of the registers > downstairs to see if it would force more cool air to the upstairs, but > I can’t really feel a difference there either. There are 3 return > ducts upstairs. By placing a tissue over the ducts, I can tell that > two of the ducts on the west end of the house pull a pretty good > draft. However the return duct in the master bedroom pull in very > little return air. > I’d appreciate any feedback on the following ideas for improving the > upstair cooling. But I’d also like to know if any of them would cause > problems I have not considered: > 1. Install an attic ventilation fan – would pulling all of that hot > air out of my attic have any positive affect on cooling the upstairs > rooms? I believe I have at least 8"-to-10" of blown-in insulation in > the attic, but I’m sure the attic must reach temps of around 130 to > 150 degrees on a hot day. > 2. One of the coolest (downstairs) rooms in the house is the family > room, which is located directly below one of the warmer rooms (the > master bedroom). I have considered cutting a vent in the floor of the > master bedroom, and installing a fan that would pull air from the > cooler family room directly up into the upstairs bedroom. Would that > cause any cirulation problems that I’m not thinking about? > 3. Two of the warmest upstairs rooms sit directly over a 2-car garage. > This garage faces due-West, so in the late afternoon, the garage gets > really hot. Not as hot as the attic, but I’m sure the garage temp must > reach well over 100 degrees. I try to keep the garage door open by a > few inches to allow some ventilation, but it doesn’t help much when > the garage door itself heats up and radiates back into the garage. My > idea here is to install a 8" duct and a duct fan that would either > force outside air into the garage, or reverse the flow on the fan so > that it pulls the hot air out. Not sure which would be better. There > are no windows in the garage, and there are no secondary access doors. > Well that’s the configuration, and my ideas for solving the upstairs > cooling problem. Any feedback and additional suggestions would be much > appreciated. > Dick McC.

Response:

I know, I know. This topic has been beat to death both in this newsgroup, as well as alt.hvac, but here’s the situation. The A/C works great downstairs. It’s almost too cool at times on the lower level. However, as many on this NG have described before, the A/C has a hard time cooling the upstairs bedrooms and home-office. Some of the upstairs air registers blow a nice steady stream of cool air, while others seem to move very little air. Even given that, on a hot day with outdoor temps in the mid-90s, the upstairs temperature will still drop to between 75 to 78 degrees. Not too bad, but I like a really cool room for sleeping. So far, I’ve tried the Equalizer EQ2 register booster (made by Suncourt?), but I can’t really tell if it is accomplishing much. I’ve also closed down some of the registers downstairs to see if it would force more cool air to the upstairs, but I can’t really feel a difference there either. There are 3 return ducts upstairs. By placing a tissue over the ducts, I can tell that two of the ducts on the west end of the house pull a pretty good draft. However the return duct in the master bedroom pull in very little return air. I’d appreciate any feedback on the following ideas for improving the upstair cooling. But I’d also like to know if any of them would cause problems I have not considered: 1. Install an attic ventilation fan – would pulling all of that hot air out of my attic have any positive affect on cooling the upstairs rooms? I believe I have at least 8"-to-10" of blown-in insulation in the attic, but I’m sure the attic must reach temps of around 130 to 150 degrees on a hot day. 2. One of the coolest (downstairs) rooms in the house is the family room, which is located directly below one of the warmer rooms (the master bedroom). I have considered cutting a vent in the floor of the master bedroom, and installing a fan that would pull air from the cooler family room directly up into the upstairs bedroom. Would that cause any cirulation problems that I’m not thinking about? 3. Two of the warmest upstairs rooms sit directly over a 2-car garage. This garage faces due-West, so in the late afternoon, the garage gets really hot. Not as hot as the attic, but I’m sure the garage temp must reach well over 100 degrees. I try to keep the garage door open by a few inches to allow some ventilation, but it doesn’t help much when the garage door itself heats up and radiates back into the garage. My idea here is to install a 8" duct and a duct fan that would either force outside air into the garage, or reverse the flow on the fan so that it pulls the hot air out. Not sure which would be better. There are no windows in the garage, and there are no secondary access doors. Well that’s the configuration, and my ideas for solving the upstairs cooling problem. Any feedback and additional suggestions would be much appreciated. Dick McC.

Response:

> The only real fix is to have a dual system.  You can do all the other stuff, > but unless you have a dual system it really isn’t going to be any better. > heyblue > woodstock, ga

Well, my Carrier 3 zone( 1 per floor) system with one compressor(two speed) works perfectly. I can even get the upstairs cooler than the downstairs in the summer or the downstairs hotter than the upstairs. My house was originally built with a singl unzoned system, which did not work too well. A dual compressor system would have been more expensive, particualrly if they were as effecient as the single system.

Response:

Not true.. matter of fact, words of a hack..you cant tell that, and IF the units sized for the home, and the duct is intact, he CAN get correct temps in the home… See it all the time…fix it all time…. Hear that same garbage about dual systems all the time…and that is a rare situation… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The only real fix is to have a dual system.  You can do all the other stuff, > but unless you have a dual system it really isn’t going to be any better. > heyblue > woodstock, ga

Response:

> I would vote for the attic ventilation and definitely look at upgrading the > insulation up there.  I had a very similar problem and upgraded the attic > insulation.  That really helped.  I didn’t work on the ventilation as I am > planning on doing the roof soon and want to discuss ventilation then.  BTW > what colour is your roof?  Is it black and attracting a lot of sun/heat? I > was thinking about a lighter colour — anyone have thoughts?

Dark colored roofs don’t show the dirt, soot, particulate pollution, etc. Light colored roofs look like hell in about a week.

Response:

>The A/C works great downstairs. It’s almost too cool at times on the >lower level. However, as many on this NG have described before, the >A/C has a hard time cooling the upstairs bedrooms and home-office.

Where are your return vents located? We are building a new home and had a heating engineer design the duct layout for it. All of the upstairs return vents are located high on the wall primarily for the purpose of taking the warm air that rises back through the HVAC system for cooling. I don’t know how much change in this regards you can easily do, but if you have return vents located near the floor, then a new hole could be cut near the top and a grill could be placed on it and the former hole could be patched with drywall. — Calvin Henry-Cotnam "Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence."                                                            - Napoleon NOTE: if replying by email, remove the capital letters!

Response:

The only real fix is to have a dual system.  You can do all the other stuff, but unless you have a dual system it really isn’t going to be any better. heyblue woodstock, ga

Response:

Previously, John M. Reichard wrote in alt.home.repair: > The only real fix is to have a dual system.  You can do all the other stuff, > but unless you have a dual system it really isn’t going to be any better. > heyblue > woodstock, ga

Or a properly designed zoned system. Our three story house with separate thermostats on each floor is pretty well balanced.

Response:

I thought about this a bit more today when again, was at a home balancing the air flow for a new customer that had this issue…and I figure it might be worth explaining to you in here, as I did to them in person, and while its going to be a bit long winded, and might piss a few off that think different…facts is facts..if I can get a room that was 90F to 72 in an hour with the existing units….well…somethings being done right eh?

> I know, I know. This topic has been beat to death both in this newsgroup, > as well as alt.hvac, but here’s the situation. > The A/C works great downstairs. It’s almost too cool at times on the > lower level. However, as many on this NG have described before, the > A/C has a hard time cooling the upstairs bedrooms and home-office.

Normally, that is due to the fact that the air handlers are on the lower level, either under the home in the crawlspace,or a closet on the lower level.. A perfectly designed home would have a set of units…one upstairs, with the ductwork designed for it, and one for the lower level..most homes even today, do not have a properly designed system to begin with. Either the installer didnt do a manual J and D, or the homeowner demanded a larger unit, thinking that would solve his issues…and the installer went with it…we dont. Period. If it calls for 3 tons, you wont get 4 from me… > Some of the upstairs air registers blow a nice steady stream of cool > air, while others seem to move very little air. Even given that, on a > hot day with outdoor temps in the mid-90s, the upstairs temperature > will still drop to between 75 to 78 degrees. Not too bad, but I like a > really cool room for sleeping.

If that is the case, you might actually have some ducts that have come loose where the transition is from the air handler to the trunck line heading up… another poster in here that I went to his home for the same issue had that very issue, and on my previous posting on your matter, I forgot all about that.. > So far, I’ve tried the Equalizer EQ2 > register booster (made by Suncourt?), but I can’t really tell if it is > accomplishing much.

Junk…all are..if you do not have proper flow, its either a complete design flaw, non balanced system, or a defect actually in the ductwork that can be repaired in most cases. When you add a duct booster, you are just pulling more air from another one….thats all… >I’ve also closed down some of the registers > downstairs to see if it would force more cool air to the upstairs, but > I can’t really feel a difference there either.

Did you close ALL the registers downstairs, and start from there? Thats step one…see if it helps…if not, you need to look into a 90 degree thats come loose, or a leaking system for the upstairs.. >There are 3 return > ducts upstairs. By placing a tissue over the ducts, I can tell that > two of the ducts on the west end of the house pull a pretty good > draft. However the return duct in the master bedroom pull in very > little return air.

Is it the duct that would be farthest from the air handler? Is the duct size to it smaller than the rest? Air is like water…it will follow the path of least resistance. > I’d appreciate any feedback on the following ideas for improving the > upstair cooling. But I’d also like to know if any of them would cause > problems I have not considered: > 1. Install an attic ventilation fan – would pulling all of that hot > air out of my attic have any positive affect on cooling the upstairs > rooms? I believe I have at least 8"-to-10" of blown-in insulation in > the attic, but I’m sure the attic must reach temps of around 130 to > 150 degrees on a hot day.

Not an issue if it reaches 200…really…if the insulation is at least R30..you are set there…we cooled homes all the time with 150F attics in the deserts of California..it is about air flow as much as radiant heating from the attic.However, a gable fan on a thermostat has helped some greatly. > 2. One of the coolest (downstairs) rooms in the house is the family > room, which is located directly below one of the warmer rooms (the > master bedroom). I have considered cutting a vent in the floor of the > master bedroom, and installing a fan that would pull air from the > cooler family room directly up into the upstairs bedroom. Would that > cause any cirulation problems that I’m not thinking about?

Not a good thing to do..ten to one, the duct that feeds this room is short, and the airhandler is close. Close off the register in that room to about 1/4 of what it is now, and you will redirect the air that normally just spills out to other areas… > 3. Two of the warmest upstairs rooms sit directly over a 2-car garage. > This garage faces due-West, so in the late afternoon, the garage gets > really hot. Not as hot as the attic, but I’m sure the garage temp must > reach well over 100 degrees. I try to keep the garage door open by a > few inches to allow some ventilation, but it doesn’t help much when > the garage door itself heats up and radiates back into the garage. My > idea here is to install a 8" duct and a duct fan that would either > force outside air into the garage, or reverse the flow on the fan so > that it pulls the hot air out. Not sure which would be better. There > are no windows in the garage, and there are no secondary access doors.

An idea…put in a swamp cooler and upducts that feed in and out of the garage and into the attic…depending on your location, this might be ideal, as the garage will stay cooler, the UpDucts will feed into the attic, and provided you have proper ventilation there the hot attic air will be removed…its win-win. If you blow air in, its got to go somwhere due to static pressure..and that might mean into the home….pull hot air out, and you have to have air coming in, and that also might mean from the home…you have to have a balance for it to work properly, and 8 inches is not much. Even here in NC, with the humidity, more and more people are doing this with the evap coolers…as you can use them with the water flow off, and get incredible air flow.. > Well that’s the configuration, and my ideas for solving the upstairs > cooling problem. Any feedback and additional suggestions would be much > appreciated. > Dick McC.

Not flaming you, but all in all, that was limited information, and all anyone can do is make guesses.. You might try getting a reputable company out to do an evaluation…. Other things that come to mind.. Low airflow due to a unit that has not been serviced, and has a clogged blower clogged evap coil too low of a fan speed setting on the air handler… motor going bad, and not reaching set RPM and creating lack of airflow Its hard to see from here…but really..havent seen but a couple that the situation could not be resolved without spending tons.

Response:

I would vote for the attic ventilation and definitely look at upgrading the insulation up there.  I had a very similar problem and upgraded the attic insulation.  That really helped.  I didn’t work on the ventilation as I am planning on doing the roof soon and want to discuss ventilation then.  BTW what colour is your roof?  Is it black and attracting a lot of sun/heat?  I was thinking about a lighter colour — anyone have thoughts? The other thing you mentioned which you should look at more closely is the area of getting the hot air out since there doesn’t seem to be a problem with cold air getting to the rooms.  No science to back me up here but if the cold air is not displacing the hot (and why would it?), you need to get rid of the hot.  I was thinking about installing a bathroom type exhaust fan in the upstairs hall venting properly out through the attic to the outside. A good fan with thought-out CFMs may be the thing to turn the trick.  I have to think about this one a bit more because, as you mentioned, I don’t want to compromise the returns if they are needed to balance the system. As to your cutting a hole in the family room ceiling, I don’t like that for two reasons:  first, hot air rises and the cold stays low.  I’m afraid all you would be letting into your bedroom is hot air.  Second, I would be concerned with noises travelling through the opening (whether it’s kids or others in the family room or you in the bedroom).  It may create a whole set of new problems. One final thing:  On really hot days, I simply shut the doors to the rooms so that the hall doesn’t have to get air conditioned.  Seems too simple, but try it! good luck

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know, I know. This topic has been beat to death both in this newsgroup, > as well as alt.hvac, but here’s the situation. > The A/C works great downstairs. It’s almost too cool at times on the > lower level. However, as many on this NG have described before, the > A/C has a hard time cooling the upstairs bedrooms and home-office. > Some of the upstairs air registers blow a nice steady stream of cool > air, while others seem to move very little air. Even given that, on a > hot day with outdoor temps in the mid-90s, the upstairs temperature > will still drop to between 75 to 78 degrees. Not too bad, but I like a > really cool room for sleeping. So far, I’ve tried the Equalizer EQ2 > register booster (made by Suncourt?), but I can’t really tell if it is > accomplishing much. I’ve also closed down some of the registers > downstairs to see if it would force more cool air to the upstairs, but > I can’t really feel a difference there either. There are 3 return > ducts upstairs. By placing a tissue over the ducts, I can tell that > two of the ducts on the west end of the house pull a pretty good > draft. However the return duct in the master bedroom pull in very > little return air. > I’d appreciate any feedback on the following ideas for improving the > upstair cooling. But I’d also like to know if any of them would cause > problems I have not considered: > 1. Install an attic ventilation fan – would pulling all of that hot > air out of my attic have any positive affect on cooling the upstairs > rooms? I believe I have at least 8"-to-10" of blown-in insulation in > the attic, but I’m sure the attic must reach temps of around 130 to > 150 degrees on a hot day. > 2. One of the coolest (downstairs) rooms in the house is the family > room, which is located directly below one of the warmer rooms (the > master bedroom). I have considered cutting a vent in the floor of the > master bedroom, and installing a fan that would pull air from the > cooler family room directly up into the upstairs bedroom. Would that > cause any cirulation problems that I’m not thinking about? > 3. Two of the warmest upstairs rooms sit directly over a 2-car garage. > This garage faces due-West, so in the late afternoon, the garage gets > really hot. Not as hot as the attic, but I’m sure the garage temp must > reach well over 100 degrees. I try to keep the garage door open by a > few inches to allow some ventilation, but it doesn’t help much when > the garage door itself heats up and radiates back into the garage. My > idea here is to install a 8" duct and a duct fan that would either > force outside air into the garage, or reverse the flow on the fan so > that it pulls the hot air out. Not sure which would be better. There > are no windows in the garage, and there are no secondary access doors. > Well that’s the configuration, and my ideas for solving the upstairs > cooling problem. Any feedback and additional suggestions would be much > appreciated. > Dick McC.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know, I know. This topic has been beat to death both in this newsgroup, > as well as alt.hvac, but here’s the situation. > The A/C works great downstairs. It’s almost too cool at times on the > lower level. However, as many on this NG have described before, the > A/C has a hard time cooling the upstairs bedrooms and home-office. > Some of the upstairs air registers blow a nice steady stream of cool > air, while others seem to move very little air. Even given that, on a > hot day with outdoor temps in the mid-90s, the upstairs temperature > will still drop to between 75 to 78 degrees. Not too bad, but I like a > really cool room for sleeping. So far, I’ve tried the Equalizer EQ2 > register booster (made by Suncourt?), but I can’t really tell if it is > accomplishing much. I’ve also closed down some of the registers > downstairs to see if it would force more cool air to the upstairs, but > I can’t really feel a difference there either. There are 3 return > ducts upstairs. By placing a tissue over the ducts, I can tell that > two of the ducts on the west end of the house pull a pretty good > draft. However the return duct in the master bedroom pull in very > little return air. > I’d appreciate any feedback on the following ideas for improving the > upstair cooling. But I’d also like to know if any of them would cause > problems I have not considered: > 1. Install an attic ventilation fan – would pulling all of that hot > air out of my attic have any positive affect on cooling the upstairs > rooms? I believe I have at least 8"-to-10" of blown-in insulation in > the attic, but I’m sure the attic must reach temps of around 130 to > 150 degrees on a hot day. > 2. One of the coolest (downstairs) rooms in the house is the family > room, which is located directly below one of the warmer rooms (the > master bedroom). I have considered cutting a vent in the floor of the > master bedroom, and installing a fan that would pull air from the > cooler family room directly up into the upstairs bedroom. Would that > cause any cirulation problems that I’m not thinking about? > 3. Two of the warmest upstairs rooms sit directly over a 2-car garage. > This garage faces due-West, so in the late afternoon, the garage gets > really hot. Not as hot as the attic, but I’m sure the garage temp must > reach well over 100 degrees. I try to keep the garage door open by a > few inches to allow some ventilation, but it doesn’t help much when > the garage door itself heats up and radiates back into the garage. My > idea here is to install a 8" duct and a duct fan that would either > force outside air into the garage, or reverse the flow on the fan so > that it pulls the hot air out. Not sure which would be better. There > are no windows in the garage, and there are no secondary access doors. > Well that’s the configuration, and my ideas for solving the upstairs > cooling problem. Any feedback and additional suggestions would be much > appreciated. > Dick McC.

get a ladder or step stool and on the lower level of the house, put your hand on the ceiling…. feels cool?? probaby… now do the same on the upstairs ceiling… probably hot?? the reason is the first floor has an air condtioned room above it… the upstairs has a hot as hell attic on top of it…. you got to get the attic cooler by ventilation….. i am working on mine now….. house built about 30 yrs. ago.. it seemed alot cooler back then.. a/c works fine, putting out cold air all the time… but when installing some ceiling fans i had to get up on a step stool and could not believe how hot the ceiling area was do to the heat penetrating through the ceiling….  how old is the house, is the insulation still springy???? or did it crumble and fall down.. in some places in my house the insulation is very thin over the years it seemed to settle and this is why i have heat from the attic along with the upper 90’s temp.. two days ago it was 100 degrees outside..the inside temp. was 78 there or about…i have one electric attic ventilator on the roof.. and also have a second set of attic stairs in the attached garage that i pull down and have two box fans in the garage windows pumping the hot air out the windows…. and the house is still to hot for me..  when is was 25 and the house was built it was real cool, i weighed about 140 lbs.. now i am 55 and weigh 240 lbs. alot of fat under the skin covering the blood vessels..   a friend who is a body builder with a lot of trophies was complaining during the winter.. he had a coat on and was sitting in the passenger side of the car with the heater on.. he sounded like a lot of women do they its cold… i told him i cant believe him saying that… i mean a big muscular guy like him…. he told me that he does not have any fat insulating the blood vessels and thats why he is cold….. and thats why i am hot and almost never ever need a coat……

Response:

Question:

I’ve read conflicting information on the amount of cooling BTUs needed to cool about 1000 sq ft of space.  Anywhere from 10000 to 20000 BTUs. Can anyone to clarify?

Response:

You got it about right, somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 BTUs. Anything anyone tells you will be a guess without tons more information! Undersize it and it will not keep up. Oversize it and it will short cycle, cool the space but not remove the humidity. The correct way is to get someone to do a cooling load calc. Greg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve read conflicting information on the amount of cooling BTUs needed to > cool about 1000 sq ft of space.  Anywhere from 10000 to 20000 BTUs. > Can anyone to clarify?

Response:

Since none of us know where you live, or how weathertight your house is, it is really hard to do the required calculations. JK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve read conflicting information on the amount of cooling BTUs needed to > cool about 1000 sq ft of space.  Anywhere from 10000 to 20000 BTUs. > Can anyone to clarify?

Response:

Sorry. I live in southern Wisconsin in a 50s era house (marginal insulation).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Since none of us know where you live, or how weathertight your house is, it > is really hard to do the required calculations. > JK > I’ve read conflicting information on the amount of cooling BTUs needed to > cool about 1000 sq ft of space.  Anywhere from 10000 to 20000 BTUs. > Can anyone to clarify?

Response:

Thanks Greg.  I am somewhat limited in the BTUs I can get since I am locked into a 110v 15 AMP circuit breaker.  Other than my living room lights, the AC will be the only load on this breaker. Any idea how many BTUs this restricts me to? Thanks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You got it about right, somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 BTUs. Anything > anyone tells you will be a guess without tons more information! Undersize it > and it will not keep up. Oversize it and it will short cycle, cool the space > but not remove the humidity. > The correct way is to get someone to do a cooling load calc. > Greg > I’ve read conflicting information on the amount of cooling BTUs needed to > cool about 1000 sq ft of space.  Anywhere from 10000 to 20000 BTUs. > Can anyone to clarify?

Response:

I have a 932 square foot house well insulated with a 18,000 BTU air conditioner.  Seems about the right  size.   However I wish I would have put in two smaller air conditioners one on each side of the house.  The 18000 BTU is noisy and blows a lot of cold air if you are in the same room with it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve read conflicting information on the amount of cooling BTUs needed to > cool about 1000 sq ft of space.  Anywhere from 10000 to 20000 BTUs. > Can anyone to clarify?

Response:

> Sorry. > I live in southern Wisconsin in a 50s era house (marginal insulation).

This is Turtle. First Here . Run a heat load on the house and use that btu rating to cool it properly. Now if you a over acheiver add a 1/2 ton to it , just to make you feel better not to cool the house better. Now Let me pull my Globel Heat Load Guesstimator out and point it toward Wisconsin.  Awwww , yes I see here.  Awww let’s read the dial in the light here. awwww  24,000 btu’s or 2 tons. TURTLE

Response:

Hi Jack, hope you are having a nice day On 01-Jul-02 At About 21:26:38, Jack wrote to All  J> I’ve read conflicting information on the amount of cooling BTUs  J> needed to cool about 1000 sq ft of space.  Anywhere from 10000 to  J> 20000 BTUs.  J> Can anyone to clarify? Not without a load calculation. That is the only way to get a proper answer.  -=> HvacTech2 <=- .. URA Redneck if you hold a frog and _it_ worries about getting warts.       ___ TagDude 0.92

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > The drawback of a heat pump is you will never feel you’re getting > > hot air (it comes in efficiently only if it’s a few degrees above > > the house temperature and so it always feels cool) and the fan has > > to be running at high speed; > Neither of these statements is true. > As for blowing "cold" air", you haven’t seen a new heat pump operating > when *correctly installed*.  They can be adjusted to where the air temp > will be no cooler than gas heat. > For the OP, unless you live in South Florida, a heat pump is definitely > better than straight resistance strip heat.  Most contractors that try > to steer customers away from HPs don’t know how to correctly size and > install the unit & ductwork.  Find another contractor. > No, a heat pump can’t produce hot air unless it’s running incorrectly. > Look at it this way: if you have hot air, you can run a heat engine off of it > and the room, and use that heat engine to power at least some of the heat pump. > Therefore the heat pump is inefficient as it stands, blowing hot air. > What prevents you from doing that is that there’s only the tiniest possible > difference temperature between room and heat pump air; that’s when no further > efficiency gain is possible. > So that’s where a properly installed heat pump runs, with temperature differences > as small as possible. > You can get hotter air just by turning down the fan speed, but guess what – > it’s less efficient when you do that, and the whole point is the efficiency. > A heat pump is better than resistance heating anywhere but the capital costs > overwhelm the advantage more as it gets colder outside.

Quite correct. In addition, lowering air volume to increase output temperature will cause excessive high side pressures, usually causing lockout on the manual reset high pressure switch, that is, if it is fortunate enough to have one installed. Richard

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The drawback of a heat pump is you will never feel you’re getting > hot air (it comes in efficiently only if it’s a few degrees above > the house temperature and so it always feels cool) and the fan has > to be running at high speed; > Neither of these statements is true. > As for blowing "cold" air", you haven’t seen a new heat pump operating > when *correctly installed*.  They can be adjusted to where the air temp > will be no cooler than gas heat. > For the OP, unless you live in South Florida, a heat pump is definitely > better than straight resistance strip heat.  Most contractors that try > to steer customers away from HPs don’t know how to correctly size and > install the unit & ductwork.  Find another contractor.

No, a heat pump can’t produce hot air unless it’s running incorrectly. Look at it this way: if you have hot air, you can run a heat engine off of it and the room, and use that heat engine to power at least some of the heat pump. Therefore the heat pump is inefficient as it stands, blowing hot air. What prevents you from doing that is that there’s only the tiniest possible difference temperature between room and heat pump air; that’s when no further efficiency gain is possible. So that’s where a properly installed heat pump runs, with temperature differences as small as possible. You can get hotter air just by turning down the fan speed, but guess what – it’s less efficient when you do that, and the whole point is the efficiency. A heat pump is better than resistance heating anywhere but the capital costs overwhelm the advantage more as it gets colder outside. — Ron Hardin On the internet, nobody knows you’re a jerk.

Response:

> > The drawback of a heat pump is you will never feel you’re getting hot air > (it comes in efficiently only if it’s a few degrees above the house > temperature > and so it always feels cool) and the fan has to be running at high speed; > and it stays on a lot of the time. > Have you felt the air from a properly installed newer unit? > Friday, the inspection on the 4 ton we installed over near the lake was > showing 175F at register….thats oil or gas heat range… > Depends much on your area of the country, how well it was installed and > sized, and if the correct size heat strips were added..

A modern unit can’t overcome thermodynamics.  If the air is that hot, it’s running very inefficiently and so is improperly installed. I’m sure it makes it very popular with women so it may be marketing. Maybe you’re feeling the backup heater when its defrosting; or it may be running the backup heat all the time. — Ron Hardin On the internet, nobody knows you’re a jerk.

Response:

> If you’re springing for an AC then it might as well be a heat pump. > The drawback of a heat pump is you will never feel you’re getting hot air > (it comes in efficiently only if it’s a few degrees above the house temperature > and so it always feels cool) and the fan has to be running at high speed; > and it stays on a lot of the time.

Have you felt the air from a properly installed newer unit? Friday, the inspection on the 4 ton we installed over near the lake was showing 175F at register….thats oil or gas heat range… Depends much on your area of the country, how well it was installed and sized, and if the correct size heat strips were added.. > You may get the satisfaction of knowing it’s cheap heat but your wife > isn’t going to like it.

With a humidifier added to the system, she will for sure never know the difference. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Also it gets less efficient the colder it gets outside. > I use resistance heating and window fans in the summer myself.  AC and heat pumps > both break too fast for my tastes. > — > Ron Hardin > On the internet, nobody knows you’re a jerk.

Response:

> I need to upgrade my ac system with a new unit, the house is all electric. I > now have a heat strip system and 4 ton ac. I want to upgrade, I have been > told I do not want a heat pump because they just do not last that long. Any > ideas? Gary

If you’re springing for an AC then it might as well be a heat pump. The drawback of a heat pump is you will never feel you’re getting hot air (it comes in efficiently only if it’s a few degrees above the house temperature and so it always feels cool) and the fan has to be running at high speed; and it stays on a lot of the time. You may get the satisfaction of knowing it’s cheap heat but your wife isn’t going to like it. Also it gets less efficient the colder it gets outside. I use resistance heating and window fans in the summer myself.  AC and heat pumps both break too fast for my tastes. — Ron Hardin On the internet, nobody knows you’re a jerk.

Response:

> I need to upgrade my ac system with a new unit, the house is all electric. I > now have a heat strip system and 4 ton ac. I want to upgrade, I have been > told I do not want a heat pump because they just do not last that long. Any > ideas? Gary

Someone told you wrong…what is not that long? A heat pump is in its SIMPLEST breakdown, an AC with a reversing valve… Have a proper load calculation done. For starters…then look at heat pumps. You will find that you will be much happier with one, and installed correctly, you wont even know its a heat pump. Find a new installer, IF he was the one that told you that line of crap.

Response:

Gary,      What is available in your area? Natural gas, propane, oil etc.? Do you have a preferance …….if any of them are available? Heat pumps are fine if you have no gas or oil available. Sure beats paying for straight electric resistance heating. Like anything else, it will most likely only last as long as your installer is good and you have it serviced regularly. Id go for a 10 yr parts and labor on it too. Then just sit back and dont worry. Bubba – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I need to upgrade my ac system with a new unit, the house is all electric. I >now have a heat strip system and 4 ton ac. I want to upgrade, I have been >told I do not want a heat pump because they just do not last that long. Any >ideas? Gary

Response:

> I need to upgrade my ac system with a new unit, the house is all electric. I > now have a heat strip system and 4 ton ac. I want to upgrade, I have been > told I do not want a heat pump because they just do not last that long. Any > ideas? Gary

This is Turtle. Thought # 1 The thought of going with heat pump or electric heat should hinge on what part of the country you live in and how high is you heating bills are in general during the winter. If you on the electric heat strips now , look at your winter heating bills and say if I had a heat pump I could pay 30% less on the heating bill , but only on the heating months bills. If 30 % of you heating bills during the winter seems to be a substancial amount of money. Go with a heat pump. If not Go with the electric heat strips. Thought # 2 Years back i was told at Equipment manufactor meeting of the life of the heat pump verses the regular type cooling systems and here was what the thought was. This was maybe 20 years ago and have changed a lot to the shorter life spand by now.  A regular life spand of a regular cooling system is 25 to 30 years. The life spand of a heat pump was 15 to 18 years because you was running the compressor in the cold weather which is very hazardious to a compressor. The way equipment is made now days the years stated about are very hopefully long , but you can get a ideal of the % of difference of the life spands. Thought # 3 Now Only here in my area of [ central ] Louisiana have we seen where a 14 seer regular cooling system and straight heat strips will come out better on yearly cost to operate than a 10 seer heat pump.  The 14 seer will save enough on cooling that it will pay you heating bills in the winter. ow you may have 1 or 2 months with a bill heating bill but the others are kind a low. Different area of the country will differ vastely from state to state and electric power rates in each. Thought # 4 If your electric power rates are high in your area. Go with a heat pump to slow it down. If not don’t and get your pay back in longivity. I have discussed this question for years and years and have come to the conclusion of It’s a flipping of a coin between Longivity / regular heat strips verses short life spand / heat pump. Your choice should be based on " is 30% of my heat bill worth the shorter life spand of the equipment". Thought # 5 If you would like to talk about it . E-Mail me and see about it. TURTLE

Response:

I need to upgrade my ac system with a new unit, the house is all electric. I now have a heat strip system and 4 ton ac. I want to upgrade, I have been told I do not want a heat pump because they just do not last that long. Any ideas? Gary

Response:

Question:

We are in process with a 360 sq. ft. sun room + covered patio addition.  We had six general contractors/sun room company reps. come by and write us an estimate.  Don’t trust anyone who wants to "shoot" you a price immediately or who tries to pressure you into a quick decision.  Skepticism is good in this case.  I believe getting references is a must.  We even visited a completed project of the contractor that we eventually chose. Also, some contractors will not work with you in terms of meeting your objectives.  "Oh, you don’t want that type or room," we were told.  One contractor listened to our overall plan intently only to return with a completely different concept of the room. Your brief description of the addition sounds like it could easily translate into a $50K cost.  It really depends whether your contractor has the motivation to help you conserve cost (and waste) and whether you go for top-of-the-line materials or contractor grade stuff.  There are lots of options. The bottom line: find a contractor that has a sound reputation, good references, and is someone that you like and can work with.  He will not necessarily be the low bidder, but low bidders even have cost over-runs. Good luck. Joe Morris Please remove ZAP to email me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We’re considering a sizeable add-on to our home.  It’s a split level, > and we’d like to extend the back side (dining room, kitchen, > garage/storage, then 2nd floor master bedroom). > Rough estimates already seem to be pushing $50k.  With that amount, > since there could be so much difference in cost, materials, what is > involved, I’m looking for suggestions on how to choose the best > person/company for the job. > What are some things to look for when choosing a contractor/company? > I don’t want to be the general contractor, so we’ll be putting > everything into the company’s hands. > I like the idea of the "construction loan" we’ve been told about. > If anyone has dealt with a large add-on such as this and can offer > some insight, I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance.

Response:

Sorry, this will be in the state of Kansas, just outside Kansas City. Sounds like what you are saying is what we expected.  I’m going to be a wreck when they go tearing into walls, etc, so I plan on only going with who I’m comfortable with, we’ll check references and make a site visit if possible. How do you avoid an over-run in cost?  Do they often give a ceiling as long as you stick with the materials agreed upon, or do they often try and change things as it goes along?  I’d be really concerned about this, especially if it goes over the loan amount. Also, I’m expecting a 3-4 month time frame for something like this, is that reasonable? How feasible is it to try and do some finish work yourself?  Or what other ways can you cut costs, besides materials chosen, etc. Does anyone have any thoughts on advantages/disadvantages on adding on versus moving?  We really enjoy the neighborhood it’s just we’re outgrowing the house, so adding on might be best.  But I’m worried that we won’t get the value back out of the house when it comes time to sell.  Although, adding on would make us comfortable and that’s what counts I suppose. Thanks again, it’s greatly appreciated!

Response:

… > How do you avoid an over-run in cost?  Do they often give a ceiling as > long as you stick with the materials agreed upon, or do they often try > and change things as it goes along?  I’d be really concerned about > this, especially if it goes over the loan amount.

My contractor gave us "allowances" for certain costs so that the original estimate will be good as long as we stay within the allowances.  For example, there was a stated allowance for roof shingles in the estimate, but when the contractor and roofing subcontractor agreed that the existing roof had some damage, that added on about $3,000 to the cost of the project. Another example: We have a certain allowance for ceiling fans.  If we buy expensive fans that go over the allowance, it adds to the cost of the orginal estimate.  It would be helpful for you to do some research about building costs, especially any applicances to be included, before talking to the contractors. One more note:  Not all contractors are as easy to work with as mine.  Be sure you understand each one’s method of determining the estimate.  Some will let you know what their profit is going to be, and some won’t.  They may merely charge you for their time, or they may add a markup for profit based on the other building costs. > Also, I’m expecting a 3-4 month time frame for something like this, is > that reasonable?

That sounds about right for our project; I’m not sure about your addition since I don’t know all of the details.  If you are pouring new concrete, it has to cure for a week or two, depending on the temperature and humidity. There are many steps in a renovation like yours: foundation, perhaps plumbing?, framing, roofing, installing windows, electrical, inside finishing, etc.  Ask each contractor that gives you a cost estimate to also provide an estimate of time frame.  It will also depend on whether the contractor is working on your job exclusively, or is working on several jobs concurrently.  The relationship he has with subcontractors can also make a big difference in how long it takes. > How feasible is it to try and do some finish work yourself?  Or what > other ways can you cut costs, besides materials chosen, etc.

Some contractors let you do some of the work yourself, especially finishing work like dry wall, tile, etc.  This can be an opportunity to save cost. > Does anyone have any thoughts on advantages/disadvantages on adding on > versus moving?  We really enjoy the neighborhood it’s just we’re > outgrowing the house, so adding on might be best.  But I’m worried > that we won’t get the value back out of the house when it comes time > to sell.  Although, adding on would make us comfortable and that’s > what counts I suppose.

We went through the same thought process: renovate or more?  But we liked our location and neiborhood, so we are renovating.  If the contractor does a good job of the addition, so that it looks original to the house, and if housing prices remain good for your area, you may get your money back and more.  The longer you stay in you house, of course, the greater the probability that you will get the payback.  Also, your enjoyment of the new space is worth something, isn’t it? Regards, Joe Morris

Response:

We have started today with a tear-down and addition to our 100 year old house. First do not rush into the project before you are ready! Our project was almost 3 years in the making. I most whole-heartedly agree with the poster who said get an architect.  This will actually save you money in the long run.  Search around for one who is willing to work with you and your ideas for what your budget and style ideas are.  By using them you can avoid making mistakes which the builder may or may not see. As for choosing a builder the best suggestion is to go for the one who can communicate with you.  In our experience we obtained 6 bids for the plans.  We ruled out 3 quickly because they came in way (2x to 3x over our budget) over our cost requirements.  The other three we examined further and ruled out the two others because they were not willing to or did not listen to our requirements.  The third was willing to listen to us and also suggestions for keeping us within budget and suggest possible alternates. Lastly never assume anything!  get everything in writing, down to the type of paint and the colors The more detail you get up-front will mean less heartache and cost overruns in the future. Good luck Dave M

Response:

I faced this same decision about 5 years ago.  We moved one mile (same schools, same sports, etc.) and it is the best thing we could ever have done. — Hope this helps, Tomes

: … : > How do you avoid an over-run in cost?  Do they often give a ceiling as : > long as you stick with the materials agreed upon, or do they often try : > and change things as it goes along?  I’d be really concerned about : > this, especially if it goes over the loan amount. : : My contractor gave us "allowances" for certain costs so that the original : estimate will be good as long as we stay within the allowances.  For : example, there was a stated allowance for roof shingles in the estimate, but : when the contractor and roofing subcontractor agreed that the existing roof : had some damage, that added on about $3,000 to the cost of the project. : : Another example: We have a certain allowance for ceiling fans.  If we buy : expensive fans that go over the allowance, it adds to the cost of the : orginal estimate.  It would be helpful for you to do some research about : building costs, especially any applicances to be included, before talking to : the contractors. : : One more note:  Not all contractors are as easy to work with as mine.  Be : sure you understand each one’s method of determining the estimate.  Some : will let you know what their profit is going to be, and some won’t.  They : may merely charge you for their time, or they may add a markup for profit : based on the other building costs. : : > Also, I’m expecting a 3-4 month time frame for something like this, is : > that reasonable? : : That sounds about right for our project; I’m not sure about your addition : since I don’t know all of the details.  If you are pouring new concrete, it : has to cure for a week or two, depending on the temperature and humidity. : There are many steps in a renovation like yours: foundation, perhaps : plumbing?, framing, roofing, installing windows, electrical, inside : finishing, etc.  Ask each contractor that gives you a cost estimate to also : provide an estimate of time frame.  It will also depend on whether the : contractor is working on your job exclusively, or is working on several jobs : concurrently.  The relationship he has with subcontractors can also make a : big difference in how long it takes. : : > How feasible is it to try and do some finish work yourself?  Or what : > other ways can you cut costs, besides materials chosen, etc. : : Some contractors let you do some of the work yourself, especially finishing : work like dry wall, tile, etc.  This can be an opportunity to save cost. : : > Does anyone have any thoughts on advantages/disadvantages on adding on : > versus moving?  We really enjoy the neighborhood it’s just we’re : > outgrowing the house, so adding on might be best.  But I’m worried : > that we won’t get the value back out of the house when it comes time : > to sell.  Although, adding on would make us comfortable and that’s : > what counts I suppose. : : We went through the same thought process: renovate or more?  But we liked : our location and neiborhood, so we are renovating.  If the contractor does a : good job of the addition, so that it looks original to the house, and if : housing prices remain good for your area, you may get your money back and : more.  The longer you stay in you house, of course, the greater the : probability that you will get the payback.  Also, your enjoyment of the new : space is worth something, isn’t it? : : Regards, : : Joe Morris : :

Response:

For anything more than a very simple add-on, I’d start with an architect.  The architect can help steer you to good builders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We’re considering a sizeable add-on to our home.  It’s a split level, >and we’d like to extend the back side (dining room, kitchen, >garage/storage, then 2nd floor master bedroom). >Rough estimates already seem to be pushing $50k.  With that amount, >since there could be so much difference in cost, materials, what is >involved, I’m looking for suggestions on how to choose the best >person/company for the job. >What are some things to look for when choosing a contractor/company? >I don’t want to be the general contractor, so we’ll be putting >everything into the company’s hands. >I like the idea of the "construction loan" we’ve been told about. >If anyone has dealt with a large add-on such as this and can offer >some insight, I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance.

Response:

In late 1999, we did something similar to our raised ranch…. standard two car garage in lower half, family room in lower half, and three bedroom/one bath in upper half.  This was about a 1350 sq. ft. home. Just to set things straight, this home is located in one of the Midwest’s fastest growing cities with the nations lowest unemployment.  So, in short, contractors were few and far between and prices were set at premiums.  I will also address a few critical points that others have posted: My "sizeable" addition turned out to be an addition of 1,600 sq. feet.  Not a sun room, or half bath.  We added a house to our house.  Going UP was not an option.  The twenty year old foundation based on a truss roof system did not allow the home to carry additional height. Basically, out was the only option.  Next, beware if you are on Well and Septic.  Your property (county and state code) needs to support the TOTAL number of bedrooms and baths PLUS the ability to carry your drainfield to its "alternate" site.  In other words, you can’t encroach on your current system, it has to be sized or RESIZED for the addition, and you can’t encroach on your alternate site or your property will have to be re-perked and surveyed.  Variances apply and may cost unexpected dollars.  Don’t forget the cost of relocating utilities such as sewer, water, electricity, phone, and gas (or your oil/propane tank).  Utilities don’t do this for free. Architects can add additional cost to a home without adding value.  In fact, they may drive the cost higher AND, this was proven many times, may offer advise that is both not sound for the construction principle OR not sound for your environment.  Please don’t spam me.  They prove their worth in many invaluable ways, but not for the addition to my rectangular home. Think of what you have and what you need.  Many quality builders can help with design and function for space.  But they are limited.  My builder admitted his flaws in this area and I provided improvements to basic design that he could be build, and agree to.  Look out for outsizing your home for environmentals.  The cost of a new furnace and central AC unit may really tip the scales. How does the exterior blend in to the remainder of the house or does the entire roof and siding need to be replaced to make the finish work look right. Fingers in the till…. Look for a small, custom builder who does local work, with local references, and only a couple of jobs going at any one time.  My builder was the principal carpenter on one remodel, and the GC on one new home construction at any one time.  That’s it. He only had two jobs going — one of each flavor — at any time.  In fact, I insisted that he be the principal carpenter on my job.  This assured me that he would be on my site every day (job came in two weeks early).  So a "hands on" GC may provide comfort and assure the job gets done.  He gets paid his GC percentage AND values his labor into the bid.  Make sure his references allow you to contact them and don’t be afraid to ask to see the work and ask questions about how they felt about the job. Go shopping.  Look for new homes, resales, etc.. of similar homes in your area on similar lots, with similar finish work and appliances. This will help you understand the $/sq. ft. cost of building (lot costs have to be taken into account).  You have to understand that ADDING on has greater startup costs than building from a blank slate (tying in the roofline, foundation, electricals, plumbing, etc..)  but once cut in, the remainder of the job should be no different.  So expect to pay MORE per square foot for the job overall.  But the cost of a 2X6 is the same.  Labor vs. time will be higher but most materials should not be any different. My advice is to ask around, shop around, get quotes (they will be all over the place), ask friends, etc… Then, go down to a highly respected mill work and supply house and ask the general manager who HE would have build his house or addition… and see how you can network.  In the end, that is how I found my builder.  Ask the GM at my local UBC, the guy next to me heard the question, gave me two names, contacted one, left a message, go a phone call back, he build four houses for three co-workers, had dinner and drinks with one in their new home… and then the only decision was what we could afford, and how much it would cost.  Negotiations at the end had the contractor wanting to build for me, and me wanting him to build for us.  Final cost was $90 / sq. ft. finished.  Contact me for details of some of my findings and what I learned and what I would do differently. AGE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > We’re considering a sizeable add-on to our home.  It’s a split level, > and we’d like to extend the back side (dining room, kitchen, > garage/storage, then 2nd floor master bedroom)  <snip>

Response:

More info needed……Help varies from state to state and so do contractores….please supply more info…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We’re considering a sizeable add-on to our home.  It’s a split level, > and we’d like to extend the back side (dining room, kitchen, > garage/storage, then 2nd floor master bedroom). > Rough estimates already seem to be pushing $50k.  With that amount, > since there could be so much difference in cost, materials, what is > involved, I’m looking for suggestions on how to choose the best > person/company for the job. > What are some things to look for when choosing a contractor/company? > I don’t want to be the general contractor, so we’ll be putting > everything into the company’s hands. > I like the idea of the "construction loan" we’ve been told about. > If anyone has dealt with a large add-on such as this and can offer > some insight, I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance.

Response:

We’re considering a sizeable add-on to our home.  It’s a split level, and we’d like to extend the back side (dining room, kitchen, garage/storage, then 2nd floor master bedroom). Rough estimates already seem to be pushing $50k.  With that amount, since there could be so much difference in cost, materials, what is involved, I’m looking for suggestions on how to choose the best person/company for the job. What are some things to look for when choosing a contractor/company? I don’t want to be the general contractor, so we’ll be putting everything into the company’s hands. I like the idea of the "construction loan" we’ve been told about. If anyone has dealt with a large add-on such as this and can offer some insight, I’d really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance.

Response:

Question:

Here’s the situation:  I was driving one chilly morning on my way to the job when after about twenty minutes with the blower set low and the heat on I started to smell something burning.   It was dark out, couldn’t see anything smoking and after about 60 seconds smoke started BILLOWING from the vent on the right side of the dash.   I figured, what the hell maybe this fine Exploder will burn to the ground and I’d collect on the insurance.    I turned off every electrical device except the headlights, rolled down all the windows and the smoke eventually quit.  I went ahead and drove into work and later in the day I went out to see if there was any extensive damage.  None, nope nadda.   The only thing not right was the blower, it worked on the max air setting but not on any of the 3 lower speeds.   I’m thinkin the motor must still be good otherwise it wouldn’t operate on high.   Call me Einstein cause I stopped at the Autozone and picked up a new blower motor for $35 and installed it that evening and just as my alter-ego told me,  it didn’t change anything.  Just as before, the fan worked in High nothing else.   While I had the blower motor out I checked everywhere, back inside and out, under the dash looking for a burned or melted wire bundle.  Nuthin.   My Question:  Does this thing have a fan relay, inline fuse or something burnt or blown preventing the blower motor from working on the lower speeds?   Appreciate any suggestions.

Response:

> The only thing not right was the blower, it worked on the max >air setting but not on any of the 3 lower speeds.

THe lower speeds on the motor come from routing the electricity through a resistor.  More resistance lower fan speed. Sounds like one of your resistors fried.  I think they are usually located in the ductwork.  Look for a harness going into the ducts.  Look on the right side cause that’s where the smoke came out.

Response:

Look under the hood near the pass. firewall where the blower is. There will be a connector going in to the duct work. These are the resistors mentioned. Usally what happens is leaves or pine neddles fill up the duct to the resistors and they will set the leaves on fire causing the smoke. The only thing bad on my BII was the thermal overload located with the resistors that I replaced and then patched part of the ductwork that melted. Sounds like your thermal over load is gone from the fire temp. Radio shack has replacements. Every 5 years or so I have clean out the duct on another BII and a explorer that I still own. The junk does accumulate. I happen to park under a pine tree which doesnot help. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The only thing not right was the blower, it worked on the max >air setting but not on any of the 3 lower speeds. > THe lower speeds on the motor come from routing the electricity through a > resistor.  More resistance lower fan speed. Sounds like one of your resistors > fried.  I think they are usually located in the ductwork.  Look for a harness > going into the ducts.  Look on the right side cause that’s where the smoke came > out.

Response:

Remove your blower motor and look inside the evaporator case for debris, i.e. leaves, etc. accumulating near the blower resister. If there is any debris, remove it. There is a TSB published for installing grommets under the wiper arms, over the wiper arm pivots, for reducing the chance of debris entering the evaporator case. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Here’s the situation:  I was driving one chilly morning on my way to > the job when after about twenty minutes with the blower set low and > the heat on I started to smell something burning.   It was dark out, > couldn’t see anything smoking and after about 60 seconds smoke started > BILLOWING from the vent on the right side of the dash.   I figured, > what the hell maybe this fine Exploder will burn to the ground and I’d > collect on the insurance.    I turned off every electrical device > except the headlights, rolled down all the windows and the smoke > eventually quit.  I went ahead and drove into work and later in the > day I went out to see if there was any extensive damage.  None, nope > nadda.   The only thing not right was the blower, it worked on the max > air setting but not on any of the 3 lower speeds.   I’m thinkin the > motor must still be good otherwise it wouldn’t operate on high. > Call me Einstein cause I stopped at the Autozone and picked up a new > blower motor for $35 and installed it that evening and just as my > alter-ego told me,  it didn’t change anything.  Just as before, the > fan worked in High nothing else.   While I had the blower motor out I > checked everywhere, back inside and out, under the dash looking for a > burned or melted wire bundle.  Nuthin. > My Question:  Does this thing have a fan relay, inline fuse or > something burnt or blown preventing the blower motor from working on > the lower speeds?   Appreciate any suggestions.

– Friends don’t let freinds fish for bass. Check out the Pikemasters Mailing List at http://www.flash.net/~mushrat/pikemasters.htm

Response:

Question:

I’m hoping to reduce the cigarette smoke transmission from my duplex-neighbor.  The common wall is 50′ x 8′, consisting of (my side to their side):       Drywall       Fiberglass insulation in 2×4 frame       Low density chip/paper board (very loose bonding)       Air in 2×4 frame       Drywall I have heard of blown-in insulation foams; if I had it blown into the above air space, would it be effective at preventing smoke migration? I would also like to reduce noise transmission, so if it does that too, great.  I am currently in the process of vapor sealing the attic space, so sealing the common wall could comlete the seal – if it can be done.  The next option is to go to a pressurization fan, but *if* a seal will solve the problem I’d prefer that to a fan (HVAC loads, maintenance, drafts…). What foam options are there?  I know the urethane’s tend to expand, potentially breaking (their) drywall?  Can the foam be installed from the attic instead of drilling holes in (their) wall (the top of the wall is easily accessible).  I would put in on my side but there is fiberglass there already, which I’m assuming would mess up the seal. Thanks for any info you might have. David Malicky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m hoping to reduce the cigarette smoke transmission from my > duplex-neighbor.  The common wall is 50′ x 8′, consisting of (my side > to their side): >       Drywall >       Fiberglass insulation in 2×4 frame >       Low density chip/paper board (very loose bonding) >       Air in 2×4 frame >       Drywall > I have heard of blown-in insulation foams; if I had it blown into the > above air space, would it be effective at preventing smoke migration? > I would also like to reduce noise transmission, so if it does that > too, great.  I am currently in the process of vapor sealing the attic > space, so sealing the common wall could comlete the seal – if it can > be done.  The next option is to go to a pressurization fan, but *if* a > seal will solve the problem I’d prefer that to a fan (HVAC loads, > maintenance, drafts…). > What foam options are there?  I know the urethane’s tend to expand, > potentially breaking (their) drywall?  Can the foam be installed from > the attic instead of drilling holes in (their) wall (the top of the > wall is easily accessible).  I would put in on my side but there is > fiberglass there already, which I’m assuming would mess up the seal. > Thanks for any info you might have. > David Malicky

The most effective strategy might be to carefully seal * all * the cracks and gaps in the wall. That would include the joints between wall and floor; wall and window or door frames; at electric boxes and light fixtures.  Check for paths through common walls in attic and crawl space. That’s the sort of thing we did when designing  secure information facilities for the Navy. TB

Response: