Question:
> Then you should have had another long pause followed by the flashes for > the real code(s) that are set ended with the "55" as you saw. Are you > sure it didn’t flash 12 at the start?
He won’t necessarily get a 12 at the start. –Geoff
Response:
> Okay. I just did the test. Here’s what I saw > First the Check Engine light came on, then went off. > Next there were three flashes- a pause- and then five flashes > After that came 5 flashes- a pause- then five more flashes
I don’t think you read the flash codes correctly. Those first three flashes were probably actually a "12" (one flash, a short pause, then 2 flashes). You read the last code correctly (five and five = 55, "end of codes"). So go run the test again and watch the pauses more carefully — I’m betting that middle five is actually two groups of flashes. 14, 23, 32 or 41. DS
Response:
> > Then you should have had another long pause followed by the flashes for > the real code(s) that are set ended with the "55" as you saw. Are you > sure it didn’t flash 12 at the start? > He won’t necessarily get a 12 at the start.
He will necessarily get a 12 at the start if any code is stored. DS
Response:
Our 93 Caravan with 3.3 did the same thing. The fix was a new EGR valve assembly. It was the EET that was bad but to get the EET you will have to buy the complete EGR valve assembly. The EET ( Electric EGR Transducer ) sets behind the throttle body and is bolted to the intake. There will be a source acuum to the EET and the vacuum will then go down to the EGR valve. There will also be and electrical connector on the EET. I checked yours buy removing the source vacuum and holding my finger over it – the van started idling smooth. Hope the info. helps. Warren
Response:
Will get back shortly concerning the flashes. Just came back in from driving the thing, and it stalled three times. Once while it was moving! Luckily I was able to coast into a parking lot and restart. But the popping or backfiring sound when I give it the gas is getting worse. Looks like I wasted 300 bucks yesterday on that moron I went to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Okay. I just did the test. Here’s what I saw > First the Check Engine light came on, then went off. > Next there were three flashes- a pause- and then five flashes > After that came 5 flashes- a pause- then five more flashes >I don’t think you read the flash codes correctly. Those first three >flashes were probably actually a "12" (one flash, a short pause, then 2 >flashes). >You read the last code correctly (five and five = 55, "end of codes"). >So go run the test again and watch the pauses more carefully — I’m >betting that middle five is actually two groups of flashes. 14, 23, 32 or >41. >DS
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Response:
>>Then you should have had another long pause followed by the flashes for >the real code(s) that are set ended with the "55" as you saw. Are you >sure it didn’t flash 12 at the start? > He won’t necessarily get a 12 at the start.
I’ve never not had the 12. Under what conditions don’t you get the 12? Matt
Response:
> Okay. I just did the test. Here’s what I saw > First the Check Engine light came on, then went off. > Next there were three flashes- a pause- and then five flashes > After that came 5 flashes- a pause- then five more flashes > I did start the van, and while its freezing cold out, it did start > okay. But started getting a bit rough after about a minute. In my old > camaro with a carburetor I’d say it loses its idling speed. > Ihope this info helps. > Thanks.
Something isn’t right. You should have received a "12" at the start, a flash, a long pause (long being relative here as it really isn’t all that long), another flash, a short pause and another flash. Then you should have had another long pause followed by the flashes for the real code(s) that are set ended with the "55" as you saw. Are you sure it didn’t flash 12 at the start? Matt
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I will try that. And I wasn’t the one who wanted to change the >>>>The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >>>The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >>>It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >>>appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >>>stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". >>Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS >>at fault. >No, I wouldn’t be surprised. As Daniel said, the computer is very >seldom the problem, but they do go bad occasionally. I’d say probably >95% or more of the failures are sensor failures. The computers fail >probably less than 5% of the time. However, they do fail. I have an >out of service rear window washer on my minivan due to the failure of >one output on the BCM. >>>>He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the >>>>problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >>>Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. >>>>So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . >>>>While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s >>>>going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a >>>>popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. >>The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists. >>It is pretty obvious the computer is involved in the problem – and my >>guess is you either have another bad computer (a risk when buying used >>- but even new or "rebuilt" units have been known to fail) or you got >>one for a different application and the calibration is off. >I’d say the only obvious thing is that you aren’t doing a very good job >of diagnosis. Plug and pray isn’t a very good way to fix electrical >problems. >Why not just pull the diagnostic codes? It is rather easy on Chrysler >vehicles. >Matt
Ok, just change "you" to "your mechanic" and my comment still applies! :-) Matt
Response:
Okay. I just did the test. Here’s what I saw First the Check Engine light came on, then went off. Next there were three flashes- a pause- and then five flashes After that came 5 flashes- a pause- then five more flashes I did start the van, and while its freezing cold out, it did start okay. But started getting a bit rough after about a minute. In my old camaro with a carburetor I’d say it loses its idling speed. Ihope this info helps. Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the > problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. > So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . > While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s > going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a > popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune > up help? >Still waiting for you to post codes, see below. > >> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > >> problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > >> getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > >> start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) > >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by > >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help > >direct you to the problem, and some will not. > >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not > >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser > >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by > >checking for flash codes. > >To check the computer codes: > >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, > >leaving it "ON". Do not > >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. > >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go > >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. > >For instance, if it flashes: > >flash <pause> flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a > >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes > >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. > >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by > >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring > >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others.
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Response:
I will try that. And I wasn’t the one who wanted to change the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >>The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >>It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >>appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >>stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS > at fault. >No, I wouldn’t be surprised. As Daniel said, the computer is very >seldom the problem, but they do go bad occasionally. I’d say probably >95% or more of the failures are sensor failures. The computers fail >probably less than 5% of the time. However, they do fail. I have an >out of service rear window washer on my minivan due to the failure of >one output on the BCM. >>>He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the >>>problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >>Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. >>>So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . >>>While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s >>>going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a >>>popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists. > It is pretty obvious the computer is involved in the problem – and my > guess is you either have another bad computer (a risk when buying used > – but even new or "rebuilt" units have been known to fail) or you got > one for a different application and the calibration is off. >I’d say the only obvious thing is that you aren’t doing a very good job >of diagnosis. Plug and pray isn’t a very good way to fix electrical >problems. >Why not just pull the diagnostic codes? It is rather easy on Chrysler >vehicles. >Matt
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Response:
I will try that test and give you the results. I think you were right about the computer. While the stalling problem has stopped (for now), I don’t know if the guy adjusted something else besides the computer to stop the stalling, and didn’t tell me? But I’ll get back to you on the flash results. Thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the > problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. > So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . > While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s > going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a > popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune > up help? >Still waiting for you to post codes, see below. > >> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > >> problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > >> getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > >> start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) > >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by > >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help > >direct you to the problem, and some will not. > >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not > >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser > >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by > >checking for flash codes. > >To check the computer codes: > >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, > >leaving it "ON". Do not > >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. > >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go > >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. > >For instance, if it flashes: > >flash <pause> flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a > >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes > >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. > >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by > >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring > >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others.
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Response:
> >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS > at fault.
Actually, no I wouldn’t. On what grounds do you claim otherwise? > The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists.
Sounds to me as if the selfsame problem still exists. DS
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS > at fault.
No, I wouldn’t be surprised. As Daniel said, the computer is very seldom the problem, but they do go bad occasionally. I’d say probably 95% or more of the failures are sensor failures. The computers fail probably less than 5% of the time. However, they do fail. I have an out of service rear window washer on my minivan due to the failure of one output on the BCM. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the >>problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. >>So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . >>While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s >>going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a >>popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists. > It is pretty obvious the computer is involved in the problem – and my > guess is you either have another bad computer (a risk when buying used > – but even new or "rebuilt" units have been known to fail) or you got > one for a different application and the calibration is off.
I’d say the only obvious thing is that you aren’t doing a very good job of diagnosis. Plug and pray isn’t a very good way to fix electrical problems. Why not just pull the diagnostic codes? It is rather easy on Chrysler vehicles. Matt
Response:
>> The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer".
Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS at fault. > He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the > problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. > So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . > While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s > going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a > popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas.
The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists. It is pretty obvious the computer is involved in the problem – and my guess is you either have another bad computer (a risk when buying used – but even new or "rebuilt" units have been known to fail) or you got one for a different application and the calibration is off. Is there a "learn cycle" on this computer? Many do. Untill they have gone through the cycle all the adaptive and block learn settings are wrong, causing poor running. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune > up help? >Still waiting for you to post codes, see below. > >> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > >> problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > >> getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > >> start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) > >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by > >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help > >direct you to the problem, and some will not. > >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not > >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser > >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by > >checking for flash codes. > >To check the computer codes: > >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, > >leaving it "ON". Do not > >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. > >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go > >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. > >For instance, if it flashes: > >flash <pause> flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a > >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes > >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. > >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by > >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring > >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others.
Response:
> The mechanic told me the computer was the problem.
The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the > problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before.
Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. > So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . > While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s > going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a > popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune > up help?
Still waiting for you to post codes, see below. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >> problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >> getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >> start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help >direct you to the problem, and some will not. >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by >checking for flash codes. >To check the computer codes: >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, >leaving it "ON". Do not >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. >For instance, if it flashes: >flash <pause> flash flash ><long pause> >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash ><long pause> >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others.
Response:
thanks for answering. I went to a garage who a freind reccommended. The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like its going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune up help? Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help >direct you to the problem, and some will not. >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by >checking for flash codes. >To check the computer codes: >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, >leaving it "ON". Do not >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. >For instance, if it flashes: >flash <pause> flash flash ><long pause> >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash ><long pause> >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others. >DS
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Response:
I was told fuel filter by somebody else as well. To me its obviously something to do with the fuel line. I will check into that one. Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Check fuel pressure and or change the fuel filter, chances are it has >never been changed and being as its 11+ years old. >All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks >ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem >has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and >hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a >fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I >bought it used last year) >I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to >do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like >being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can >give an idea of what the problem could be. >Thanks >www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
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Response:
WELL SAID I have been making small pieced stained glass lampshades for a living for It is a VERY EASY vocation, just like yours. Buy a few sheets of colored glass Get a few tools cut the glass wrap it with copper foil melt some solder on it put it up for sale and then explain why it cost more than the imports SIMPLE, NO?????? h — In the words of the IMMORTAL USED CAR DEALER: THERE IS AN ASS FOR EVERY SEAT!
Response:
Check fuel pressure and or change the fuel filter, chances are it has never been changed and being as its 11+ years old. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks >ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem >has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and >hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a >fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I >bought it used last year) >I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to >do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like >being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can >give an idea of what the problem could be. >Thanks >www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
Response:
The fuel filter is good advice, but I also suggest a thorough throttle body and throttle plate cleaning as well and replacement of the PCV valve. These are easy to do and very low cost. From my experience (and others) this engine seems to get a dirty throttle plate every 25-30K miles and it usually affects the vehicle when it is idling. Bob
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Check fuel pressure and or change the fuel filter, chances are it has > never been changed and being as its 11+ years old. >All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks >ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem >has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and >hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a >fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I >bought it used last year) >I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to >do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like >being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can >give an idea of what the problem could be. >Thanks >www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
Response:
I went to a garage today, and the guy reccomended the computer be changed for some reason. I got a used one, and while the stalling problem has stopped, the van doesn’t run well at all. It starts idling roughly when stopped at a light. It seems to lose power while I am driving. And I also hear a popping noise sometimes when I give it gas. So far I have spent 300 bucks. Is a tune up the best reccomendation? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Check fuel pressure and or change the fuel filter, chances are it has >never been changed and being as its 11+ years old. >All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks >ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem >has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and >hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a >fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I >bought it used last year) >I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to >do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like >being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can >give an idea of what the problem could be. >Thanks >www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
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Response:
I can hardly blame you for not wanting to place yourself at my mercy. So, I recommend you fix your problem all by yourself. Its easy. Its easy if you do what I did. Study up on auto mechanics for one year in high school. Then go to a good junior college and study up another two years at the vocational education level. Then do a four year apprenticeship, earning some certificates of compentency. I hung an SPCA "expert class" certificate in my shop office to prove my know-how to any and all doubters. Then you need a shop or workplace and some tools and equipment. Most guys on this group talk in terms of 10’s of thousands of dollars investment, although I can do most troubleshootin’ with two six foot jumpers terminated in alligator clips. And most fixin’ with a ball peen and a Crescent wrench. By the way, don’t forget a set of factory shop manuals, too. Even we masters of the art and science can’t keep track of all those wires and vacuum lines that clog everything in sight under the hood. See? Its easy.
Response:
All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I bought it used last year) I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can give an idea of what the problem could be. Thanks www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
Response:
> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > start on the first shot (although it was cold last night)
All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help direct you to the problem, and some will not. The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by checking for flash codes. To check the computer codes: With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, leaving it "ON". Do not go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. For instance, if it flashes: flash <pause> flash flash <long pause> flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash <long pause> flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a 55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes stored. Check the codes and report what you find. Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others. DS
Response:
You may have an O2 sensor starting to go south or some other issue causing the check light. Best there to get a diagnostic. You can do the key on off on trick but it won’t catch some things. Another good thing to do is clean the throttle body. Don’t just spray stuff in it it should be removed and thoroughly cleaned. You may also have a cracked PCV hose. All simple issues though. Don’t waste your money or risk damage putting snake oil in it though. Waste of money. Larry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) > I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks > ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem > has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and > hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a > fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I > bought it used last year) > I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to > do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like > being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can > give an idea of what the problem could be. > Thanks > www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* > Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
Response:
All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I bought it used last year) I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can give an idea of what the problem could be. Thanks www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
Response:
> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > start on the first shot (although it was cold last night)
All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help direct you to the problem, and some will not. The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by checking for flash codes. To check the computer codes: With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, leaving it "ON". Do not go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. For instance, if it flashes: flash <pause> flash flash <long pause> flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash <long pause> flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a 55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes stored. Check the codes and report what you find. Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others. DS
Response:
You may have an O2 sensor starting to go south or some other issue causing the check light. Best there to get a diagnostic. You can do the key on off on trick but it won’t catch some things. Another good thing to do is clean the throttle body. Don’t just spray stuff in it it should be removed and thoroughly cleaned. You may also have a cracked PCV hose. All simple issues though. Don’t waste your money or risk damage putting snake oil in it though. Waste of money. Larry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) > I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks > ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem > has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and > hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a > fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I > bought it used last year) > I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to > do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like > being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can > give an idea of what the problem could be. > Thanks > www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* > Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
Response:
I can hardly blame you for not wanting to place yourself at my mercy. So, I recommend you fix your problem all by yourself. Its easy. Its easy if you do what I did. Study up on auto mechanics for one year in high school. Then go to a good junior college and study up another two years at the vocational education level. Then do a four year apprenticeship, earning some certificates of compentency. I hung an SPCA "expert class" certificate in my shop office to prove my know-how to any and all doubters. Then you need a shop or workplace and some tools and equipment. Most guys on this group talk in terms of 10’s of thousands of dollars investment, although I can do most troubleshootin’ with two six foot jumpers terminated in alligator clips. And most fixin’ with a ball peen and a Crescent wrench. By the way, don’t forget a set of factory shop manuals, too. Even we masters of the art and science can’t keep track of all those wires and vacuum lines that clog everything in sight under the hood. See? Its easy.
Response:
WELL SAID I have been making small pieced stained glass lampshades for a living for It is a VERY EASY vocation, just like yours. Buy a few sheets of colored glass Get a few tools cut the glass wrap it with copper foil melt some solder on it put it up for sale and then explain why it cost more than the imports SIMPLE, NO?????? h — In the words of the IMMORTAL USED CAR DEALER: THERE IS AN ASS FOR EVERY SEAT!
Response:
Check fuel pressure and or change the fuel filter, chances are it has never been changed and being as its 11+ years old. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks >ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem >has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and >hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a >fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I >bought it used last year) >I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to >do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like >being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can >give an idea of what the problem could be. >Thanks >www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
Response:
The fuel filter is good advice, but I also suggest a thorough throttle body and throttle plate cleaning as well and replacement of the PCV valve. These are easy to do and very low cost. From my experience (and others) this engine seems to get a dirty throttle plate every 25-30K miles and it usually affects the vehicle when it is idling. Bob
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Check fuel pressure and or change the fuel filter, chances are it has > never been changed and being as its 11+ years old. >All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks >ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem >has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and >hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a >fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I >bought it used last year) >I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to >do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like >being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can >give an idea of what the problem could be. >Thanks >www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
Response:
I went to a garage today, and the guy reccomended the computer be changed for some reason. I got a used one, and while the stalling problem has stopped, the van doesn’t run well at all. It starts idling roughly when stopped at a light. It seems to lose power while I am driving. And I also hear a popping noise sometimes when I give it gas. So far I have spent 300 bucks. Is a tune up the best reccomendation? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Check fuel pressure and or change the fuel filter, chances are it has >never been changed and being as its 11+ years old. >All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks >ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem >has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and >hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a >fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I >bought it used last year) >I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to >do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like >being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can >give an idea of what the problem could be. >Thanks >www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
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thanks for answering. I went to a garage who a freind reccommended. The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like its going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune up help? Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help >direct you to the problem, and some will not. >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by >checking for flash codes. >To check the computer codes: >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, >leaving it "ON". Do not >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. >For instance, if it flashes: >flash <pause> flash flash ><long pause> >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash ><long pause> >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others. >DS
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Response:
I was told fuel filter by somebody else as well. To me its obviously something to do with the fuel line. I will check into that one. Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Check fuel pressure and or change the fuel filter, chances are it has >never been changed and being as its 11+ years old. >All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >I did notice a Check Engine light was on while driving a few weeks >ago, but it hasn’t come on since. But since then the stalling problem >has occurred. I bought some of that fuel system additive by STP and >hopefully that works. Would a tune up cure the problem as well? Or a >fuel injection flush? I don’t anything has been done for awhile ( I >bought it used last year) >I went to a local garage and the guy wanted to charge me 70 bucks to >do a diagnostic test on the van to determine the problem. I don’t like >being at a garage’s mercy like this, so hopefully somebody here can >give an idea of what the problem could be. >Thanks >www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com – *Completion*Retention*Speed* >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
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Response:
> The mechanic told me the computer was the problem.
The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the > problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before.
Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. > So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . > While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s > going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a > popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune > up help?
Still waiting for you to post codes, see below. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling >> problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be >> getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t >> start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help >direct you to the problem, and some will not. >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by >checking for flash codes. >To check the computer codes: >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, >leaving it "ON". Do not >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. >For instance, if it flashes: >flash <pause> flash flash ><long pause> >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash ><long pause> >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others.
Response:
>> The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer".
Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS at fault. > He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the > problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. > So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . > While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s > going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a > popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas.
The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists. It is pretty obvious the computer is involved in the problem – and my guess is you either have another bad computer (a risk when buying used – but even new or "rebuilt" units have been known to fail) or you got one for a different application and the calibration is off. Is there a "learn cycle" on this computer? Many do. Untill they have gone through the cycle all the adaptive and block learn settings are wrong, causing poor running. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune > up help? >Still waiting for you to post codes, see below. > >> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > >> problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > >> getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > >> start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) > >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by > >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help > >direct you to the problem, and some will not. > >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not > >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser > >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by > >checking for flash codes. > >To check the computer codes: > >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, > >leaving it "ON". Do not > >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. > >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go > >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. > >For instance, if it flashes: > >flash <pause> flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a > >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes > >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. > >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by > >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring > >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others.
Response:
> >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS > at fault.
Actually, no I wouldn’t. On what grounds do you claim otherwise? > The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists.
Sounds to me as if the selfsame problem still exists. DS
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS > at fault.
No, I wouldn’t be surprised. As Daniel said, the computer is very seldom the problem, but they do go bad occasionally. I’d say probably 95% or more of the failures are sensor failures. The computers fail probably less than 5% of the time. However, they do fail. I have an out of service rear window washer on my minivan due to the failure of one output on the BCM. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the >>problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. >>So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . >>While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s >>going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a >>popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists. > It is pretty obvious the computer is involved in the problem – and my > guess is you either have another bad computer (a risk when buying used > – but even new or "rebuilt" units have been known to fail) or you got > one for a different application and the calibration is off.
I’d say the only obvious thing is that you aren’t doing a very good job of diagnosis. Plug and pray isn’t a very good way to fix electrical problems. Why not just pull the diagnostic codes? It is rather easy on Chrysler vehicles. Matt
Response:
I will try that test and give you the results. I think you were right about the computer. While the stalling problem has stopped (for now), I don’t know if the guy adjusted something else besides the computer to stop the stalling, and didn’t tell me? But I’ll get back to you on the flash results. Thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the > problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. > So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . > While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s > going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a > popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune > up help? >Still waiting for you to post codes, see below. > >> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > >> problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > >> getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > >> start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) > >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by > >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help > >direct you to the problem, and some will not. > >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not > >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser > >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by > >checking for flash codes. > >To check the computer codes: > >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, > >leaving it "ON". Do not > >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. > >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go > >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. > >For instance, if it flashes: > >flash <pause> flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a > >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes > >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. > >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by > >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring > >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others.
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Response:
I will try that. And I wasn’t the one who wanted to change the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >>The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >>It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >>appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >>stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS > at fault. >No, I wouldn’t be surprised. As Daniel said, the computer is very >seldom the problem, but they do go bad occasionally. I’d say probably >95% or more of the failures are sensor failures. The computers fail >probably less than 5% of the time. However, they do fail. I have an >out of service rear window washer on my minivan due to the failure of >one output on the BCM. >>>He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the >>>problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >>Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. >>>So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . >>>While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s >>>going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a >>>popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists. > It is pretty obvious the computer is involved in the problem – and my > guess is you either have another bad computer (a risk when buying used > – but even new or "rebuilt" units have been known to fail) or you got > one for a different application and the calibration is off. >I’d say the only obvious thing is that you aren’t doing a very good job >of diagnosis. Plug and pray isn’t a very good way to fix electrical >problems. >Why not just pull the diagnostic codes? It is rather easy on Chrysler >vehicles. >Matt
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Response:
Okay. I just did the test. Here’s what I saw First the Check Engine light came on, then went off. Next there were three flashes- a pause- and then five flashes After that came 5 flashes- a pause- then five more flashes I did start the van, and while its freezing cold out, it did start okay. But started getting a bit rough after about a minute. In my old camaro with a carburetor I’d say it loses its idling speed. Ihope this info helps. Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". > He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the > problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. > So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . > While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s > going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a > popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. > Obviously the guy I went to can’t figure out the problem. Would a tune > up help? >Still waiting for you to post codes, see below. > >> All of a sudden my 3.3V6 93 Dodge Caravan has started having stalling > >> problems when I stop at a light for a length of time. It seems to be > >> getting worse as the weather gets colder. To the point where it didn’t > >> start on the first shot (although it was cold last night) > >All sorts of different problems can cause this. Some will be picked up by > >the vehicle’s onboard computer and stored as a "fault code" which can help > >direct you to the problem, and some will not. > >The mechanic who wanted to use his diagnostic computer for an hour was not > >being unreasonable. Nevertheless, you can check for any of the grosser > >failures that will both cause stalling and be picked up by the computer by > >checking for flash codes. > >To check the computer codes: > >With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, > >leaving it "ON". Do not > >go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. > >Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go > >off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. > >For instance, if it flashes: > >flash <pause> flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > ><long pause> > >flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash > >Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a > >55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes > >stored. Check the codes and report what you find. > >Other problems that can cause this symptom and will NOT be picked up by > >the computer include a dirty throttle body and/or AIS motor, faulty wiring > >to the AIS motor, a plugged or improperly serviced PCV system, and others.
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Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I will try that. And I wasn’t the one who wanted to change the >>>>The mechanic told me the computer was the problem. >>>The computer is almost NEVER the problem. They simply almost never break. >>>It’s sad that thirty years after the first engine control computers >>>appeared, we still have ignorant and/or lazy and/or dishonest and/or >>>stupid "mechanics" like the one you picked saying "It’s the computer". >>Actually, you’d be surprised how many times the computer actually IS >>at fault. >No, I wouldn’t be surprised. As Daniel said, the computer is very >seldom the problem, but they do go bad occasionally. I’d say probably >95% or more of the failures are sensor failures. The computers fail >probably less than 5% of the time. However, they do fail. I have an >out of service rear window washer on my minivan due to the failure of >one output on the BCM. >>>>He used what looked like a small laptop computer to diaganose the >>>>problem. He said the reading he was getting he had never seen before. >>>Translation, he didn’t know how to use his diagnostic computer. >>>>So I got a used computer for 100 bucks and he installed it for me . >>>>While the stalling has stopped for now, it still idles roughly like it’s >>>>going to stall. And there’s a hesitation sometimes while driving. Also a >>>>popping sound occurs sometimes when I give it the gas. >>The problem you had is now gone, and a different problem now exists. >>It is pretty obvious the computer is involved in the problem – and my >>guess is you either have another bad computer (a risk when buying used >>- but even new or "rebuilt" units have been known to fail) or you got >>one for a different application and the calibration is off. >I’d say the only obvious thing is that you aren’t doing a very good job >of diagnosis. Plug and pray isn’t a very good way to fix electrical >problems. >Why not just pull the diagnostic codes? It is rather easy on Chrysler >vehicles. >Matt
Ok, just change "you" to "your mechanic" and my comment still applies! :-) Matt
Response:
> Okay. I just did the test. Here’s what I saw > First the Check Engine light came on, then went off. > Next there were three flashes- a pause- and then five flashes > After that came 5 flashes- a pause- then five more flashes > I did start the van, and while its freezing cold out, it did start > okay. But started getting a bit rough after about a minute. In my old > camaro with a carburetor I’d say it loses its idling speed. > Ihope this info helps. > Thanks.
Something isn’t right. You should have received a "12" at the start, a flash, a long pause (long being relative here as it really isn’t all that long), another flash, a short pause and another flash. Then you should have had another long pause followed by the flashes for the real code(s) that are set ended with the "55" as you saw. Are you sure it didn’t flash 12 at the start? Matt
Response:
> Then you should have had another long pause followed by the flashes for > the real code(s) that are set ended with the "55" as you saw. Are you > sure it didn’t flash 12 at the start?
He won’t necessarily get a 12 at the start. –Geoff
Response:
> Okay. I just did the test. Here’s what I saw > First the Check Engine light came on, then went off. > Next there were three flashes- a pause- and then five flashes > After that came 5 flashes- a pause- then five more flashes
I don’t think you read the flash codes correctly. Those first three flashes were probably actually a "12" (one flash, a short pause, then 2 flashes). You read the last code correctly (five and five = 55, "end of codes"). So go run the test again and watch the pauses more carefully — I’m betting that middle five is actually two groups of flashes. 14, 23, 32 or 41. DS
Response:
> > Then you should have had another long pause followed by the flashes for > the real code(s) that are set ended with the "55" as you saw. Are you > sure it didn’t flash 12 at the start? > He won’t necessarily get a 12 at the start.
He will necessarily get a 12 at the start if any code is stored. DS
Response:
Our 93 Caravan with 3.3 did the same thing. The fix was a new EGR valve assembly. It was the EET that was bad but to get the EET you will have to buy the complete EGR valve assembly. The EET ( Electric EGR Transducer ) sets behind the throttle body and is bolted to the intake. There will be a source acuum to the EET and the vacuum will then go down to the EGR valve. There will also be and electrical connector on the EET. I checked yours buy removing the source vacuum and holding my finger over it – the van started idling smooth. Hope the info. helps. Warren
Response:
Will get back shortly concerning the flashes. Just came back in from driving the thing, and it stalled three times. Once while it was moving! Luckily I was able to coast into a parking lot and restart. But the popping or backfiring sound when I give it the gas is getting worse. Looks like I wasted 300 bucks yesterday on that moron I went to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Okay. I just did the test. Here’s what I saw > First the Check Engine light came on, then went off. > Next there were three flashes- a pause- and then five flashes > After that came 5 flashes- a pause- then five more flashes >I don’t think you read the flash codes correctly. Those first three >flashes were probably actually a "12" (one flash, a short pause, then 2 >flashes). >You read the last code correctly (five and five = 55, "end of codes"). >So go run the test again and watch the pauses more carefully — I’m >betting that middle five is actually two groups of flashes. 14, 23, 32 or >41. >DS
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Response:
>>Then you should have had another long pause followed by the flashes for >the real code(s) that are set ended with the "55" as you saw. Are you >sure it didn’t flash 12 at the start? > He won’t necessarily get a 12 at the start.
I’ve never not had the 12. Under what conditions don’t you get the 12? Matt
Response:
I assume if they have spark plugs they must connect to the ignition in some manner. Could you enlighten me as to how it is done ? I have never seen the engine in anything later than an E30. — Panzer 
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