Question:

Like I care-

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To: Local:

Who sent this – Marc – Here’s the e-mail that was sent to me last week:   Print – Close Window   X-Originating-IP: [216.136.128.62] Authentication-Results: mta255.mail.mud.yahoo.com from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) Received: from 216.136.128.62 (HELO mr106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (216.136.128.62) by mta255.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 12:31:22 -0700 Received: from web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com (209.191.125.39) by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with Received: (qmail 75639 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Apr 2006 15:17:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=nZCM4SEPamhvOVk1WVtTWGQhN8dasV61olArjDyWh6RxVH/ZRB6zFgMAJzxB0KKO5Xvf3kHe2 nOdWOfWN1lBlCPUlw2SpGK/4wbJdYCidUQWEHZPgIC93WDnuNuvetGT80oAeu0gxn9TOJh6lVbM xjIuEuG/HtykmjaJmwaH79I= ; Received: from [67.38.235.242] by web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:17:50 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2011753656-1144077470=:73640" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 644 Mike Campbell Saratoga Springs, NY Employer: OFT (Office for Technology), NY State. A triangulation method used to dredge it up, it may be a hit. Throw it up there & see what kind of a result it generates? More data is available if it results in a high pucker factor….. All the best, Bob Who is Horseshoe Bob?  You? Bill Kahle? This is where I got the info on Mike Campbell and posted to AGA under a Tip Dover sock I assume it is Bill Kahle and both of you have been communicating about smoking out Tip Dover.  You obviously know something as you responded on AGA by posting my name and address after I posted the Mike Campbell info. Please do not post my personal information.  If you have any suspicions or questions, just ask me.  I have no interest in dragging you through the mud and have limited time for all of this anyway. Thanks. Mark PS – Yesterday, someone sent an e-mail to the KK address in an attempt to collect the password to my Yahoo account. My suspicions are, in order: 1. Tip Dover 2. Bill Kahle 3. DGDevin Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Like I care- > Marc – > Here’s the e-mail that was sent to me last week: >   Print – Close Window > X-Originating-IP: [216.136.128.62] > Authentication-Results: mta255.mail.mud.yahoo.com > from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) > Received: from 216.136.128.62 (HELO > mr106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (216.136.128.62) by > mta255.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 > 12:31:22 -0700 > Received: from web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com > (209.191.125.39) by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with > Received: (qmail 75639 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Apr > 2006 15:17:50 -0000 > DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; > s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; > b=nZCM4SEPamhvOVk1WVtTWGQhN8dasV61olArjDyWh6RxVH/ZRB6zFgMAJzxB0KKO5Xvf3kHe2 nOdWOfWN1lBlCPUlw2SpGK/4wbJdYCidUQWEHZPgIC93WDnuNuvetGT80oAeu0gxn9TOJh6lVbM xjIuEuG/HtykmjaJmwaH79I= > ; > Received: from [67.38.235.242] by > web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 > 08:17:50 PDT > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="0-2011753656-1144077470=:73640" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Content-Length: 644 > Mike Campbell > Saratoga Springs, NY > Employer: OFT (Office for Technology), NY State. > A triangulation method used to > dredge it up, it may be a hit. Throw it > up there & see what kind of a result > it generates? More data is available if > it results in a high pucker factor….. > All the best, > Bob > Who is Horseshoe Bob?  You? Bill Kahle? > This is where I got the info on Mike Campbell and > posted to AGA under a Tip Dover sock > I assume it is Bill Kahle and both of you have been > communicating about smoking out Tip Dover.  You > obviously know something as you responded on AGA by > posting my name and address after I posted the Mike > Campbell info. > Please do not post my personal information.  If you > have any suspicions or questions, just ask me.  I have > no interest in dragging you through the mud and have > limited time for all of this anyway. > Thanks. > Mark > PS – Yesterday, someone sent an e-mail to the KK > address in an attempt to collect the password to my > Yahoo account. My suspicions are, in order: > 1. Tip Dover > 2. Bill Kahle > 3. DGDevin > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com

Just an observation from the sideline. AGA finds itself with a two part, three part problem. There is the OT political camp, and the instigating agitating king of the hill camp. Add in the magna traction and the unifying force that gave it’s birth and appearance to the sandbox of this public forum, AGA. Thus, the many on the side lines who now find AGA worthless, as the kids are at play, with a killer’s grip, their war games, to be King of the hill. So, now as it instigate’s escalates the agitate in both camps, critical mass approaches.   I’ve seen this before many times on CB radio.  Where, it reached a point, one fellow walked up to the other guy’s front door, rang the bell, and shot the guy in the head with a 357, who answered the call, in broad day light.  Case in point, channel 10 on the band, location, newark NJ. Another found an ax in the front door, left as a calling card.  Case in point, channel 10, location, Irvington NJ. Another found their house ventilated with 9 mm holes, from a drive by. Case in point, channel 18, location Orange NJ. Another case, one instigating agitating personality was found on a mountain top in the dark of night, thinking he was safe, when a group of guys got the drop on him, put a gun to his head, and beat the living shit out of him.  Case in point, channel 18, location Orange NJ. Did it make the late night TV news of the papers.  Nope, never seen it. Are these events true.  You bet your sweet ass they are, as the guys are STILL serving time for the crime. I saw this coming, before it arrived here in AGA, way back at the time we talked about putting up an AGA web site, and one individual was not going to play ball with the rest, and I saw the writing on the wall.  That, others did not want to SEE. So, guys….  here we sit left to ride the wake some would call the legacy of a SINGLE instigating agitator. So, to some, in this, there is meaning to their life. God help those stuck on the side lines. <thinking> One day back in the late ’60s, while southbound on the NJ GSP, there was a pair of sneakers with the laces tied together, hanging from a high tension electrical wire running clear across the GSP.  It must have been 50 foot above the cars traveling under them. Why, were they there. Who would do such a thing. As the years went by, all the travelers on the south bound GSP watched those sneakers rot from the weather. Guess what. They are no longer there, for anyone to notice, or even talk about. So, in closing, it would be logical if one wants to leave their mark along the path their life takes them of others to see, leave something more permanent, that really matters to others. Otherwise, you were nothing more than a temporary pair of sneakers, or topic of conversation, while the memory lasts. Most, wouldn’t give a shit anyway. What is all boils down to is,….  it’s not who you are that counts. But, what you do, that counts. My 2 cents, and I’m out of here. I’m going to sit on the side lines and get some sleep. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

> I’m going to sit on the side lines and get some sleep. > Regards, > Rich Koerner

Piscataway NJ…Dana Point, CA

Response:

Ahh, Rich we ARE our actions. My hat’s off personally for still slugging it out in the mess that has become the music industry. I pussied out years ago and went to school. Why do people forget music is a PERFORMING art? Recording is so secondary.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Like I care- > Marc – > Here’s the e-mail that was sent to me last week: >   Print – Close Window > X-Originating-IP: [216.136.128.62] > Authentication-Results: mta255.mail.mud.yahoo.com > from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) > Received: from 216.136.128.62 (HELO > mr106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (216.136.128.62) by > mta255.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 > 12:31:22 -0700 > Received: from web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com > (209.191.125.39) by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with > Received: (qmail 75639 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Apr > 2006 15:17:50 -0000 > DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; > s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; > b=nZCM4SEPamhvOVk1WVtTWGQhN8dasV61olArjDyWh6RxVH/ZRB6zFgMAJzxB0KKO5Xvf3kHe2 nOdWOfWN1lBlCPUlw2SpGK/4wbJdYCidUQWEHZPgIC93WDnuNuvetGT80oAeu0gxn9TOJh6lVbM xjIuEuG/HtykmjaJmwaH79I= > ; > Received: from [67.38.235.242] by > web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 > 08:17:50 PDT > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="0-2011753656-1144077470=:73640" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Content-Length: 644 > Mike Campbell > Saratoga Springs, NY > Employer: OFT (Office for Technology), NY State. > A triangulation method used to > dredge it up, it may be a hit. Throw it > up there & see what kind of a result > it generates? More data is available if > it results in a high pucker factor….. > All the best, > Bob > Who is Horseshoe Bob?  You? Bill Kahle? > This is where I got the info on Mike Campbell and > posted to AGA under a Tip Dover sock > I assume it is Bill Kahle and both of you have been > communicating about smoking out Tip Dover.  You > obviously know something as you responded on AGA by > posting my name and address after I posted the Mike > Campbell info. > Please do not post my personal information.  If you > have any suspicions or questions, just ask me.  I have > no interest in dragging you through the mud and have > limited time for all of this anyway. > Thanks. > Mark > PS – Yesterday, someone sent an e-mail to the KK > address in an attempt to collect the password to my > Yahoo account. My suspicions are, in order: > 1. Tip Dover > 2. Bill Kahle > 3. DGDevin > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Just an observation from the sideline. > AGA finds itself with a two part, three part problem. > There is the OT political camp, and the instigating agitating king of the > hill camp. > Add in the magna traction and the unifying force that gave it’s birth and > appearance to the sandbox > of this public forum, AGA. > Thus, the many on the side lines who now find AGA worthless, as the kids > are at play, with a > killer’s grip, their war games, to be King of the hill. > So, now as it instigate’s escalates the agitate in both camps, critical > mass approaches. > I’ve seen this before many times on CB radio.  Where, it reached a point, > one fellow walked up to > the other guy’s front door, rang the bell, and shot the guy in the head > with a 357, who answered the > call, in broad day light.  Case in point, channel 10 on the band, > location, newark NJ. > Another found an ax in the front door, left as a calling card.  Case in > point, channel 10, location, > Irvington NJ. > Another found their house ventilated with 9 mm holes, from a drive by. > Case in point, channel 18, > location Orange NJ. > Another case, one instigating agitating personality was found on a > mountain top in the dark of > night, thinking he was safe, when a group of guys got the drop on him, put > a gun to his head, and > beat the living shit out of him.  Case in point, channel 18, location > Orange NJ. > Did it make the late night TV news of the papers.  Nope, never seen it. > Are these events true.  You bet your sweet ass they are, as the guys are > STILL serving time for the > crime. > I saw this coming, before it arrived here in AGA, way back at the time we > talked about putting up an > AGA web site, and one individual was not going to play ball with the rest, > and I saw the writing on > the wall.  That, others did not want to SEE. > So, guys….  here we sit left to ride the wake some would call the legacy > of a SINGLE instigating > agitator. > So, to some, in this, there is meaning to their life. > God help those stuck on the side lines. > <thinking> > One day back in the late ’60s, while southbound on the NJ GSP, there was a > pair of sneakers with the > laces tied together, hanging from a high tension electrical wire running > clear across the GSP.  It > must have been 50 foot above the cars traveling under them. > Why, were they there. > Who would do such a thing. > As the years went by, all the travelers on the south bound GSP watched > those sneakers rot from the > weather. > Guess what. > They are no longer there, for anyone to notice, or even talk about. > So, in closing, it would be logical if one wants to leave their mark along > the path their life takes > them of others to see, leave something more permanent, that really matters > to others. > Otherwise, you were nothing more than a temporary pair of sneakers, or > topic of conversation, while > the memory lasts. > Most, wouldn’t give a shit anyway. > What is all boils down to is,….  it’s not who you are that counts. > But, what you do, that counts. > My 2 cents, and I’m out of here. > I’m going to sit on the side lines and get some sleep. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >       Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

Question:

I built a replica of a Tweed Fender Princeton (5f2-a), and have been thinking about selling it. Its a handmade all tube amp built very close to original specs (a few small voltage adjustments made to compensate for modern household line voltages). It is housed in a beautiful Tweed covered combo cab with a really nice shiney chassis, and has a jensen Alnico 10" speaker installed (its the biigger box version). What is an amp like this worth? Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that break the rules of this group?

Response:

> I built a replica of a Tweed Fender Princeton (5f2-a), and have been > thinking about selling it. Its a handmade all tube amp built very close to > original specs (a few small voltage adjustments made to compensate for > modern household line voltages). It is housed in a beautiful Tweed covered > combo cab with a really nice shiney chassis, and has a jensen Alnico 10" > speaker installed (its the biigger box version). > What is an amp like this worth? > Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that break > the rules of this group?

What I would do is price it against what a similar vintage Princeton would go for and then go a bit lower.  I think what you’ll find is that people who are going to be interested in that type of amp are going to prefer to get an original Fender.  Additionally, while it might be a very nice amplifier, it’s home brew and doesn’t have an automatic resale value like a named brand would. One thing I’ve learned from reading this group and doing some other research is that building your own amplifier has to be a labor of love as it actually costs more to DIY than buy a production model. Since your amp is an unknown, I think your best bet is to sell it locally where potential buyers can check it out and hear what it sounds like in person.

Response:

> I built a replica of a Tweed Fender Princeton (5f2-a), and have been > thinking about selling it. Its a handmade all tube amp built very close to > original specs (a few small voltage adjustments made to compensate for > modern household line voltages). It is housed in a beautiful Tweed covered > combo cab with a really nice shiney chassis, and has a jensen Alnico 10" > speaker installed (its the biigger box version). > What is an amp like this worth? > Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that break > the rules of this group?

Ebay seems to be the forum to maximize your sales price.  Unless you "have a name" and a following, you might want to set a reasonable reserve so that it doesn’t go too low.  I’d be hesitant to bid without a written return policy.  If you state the following, you’ll probably have the best shot:  "I’m so convinced that you’ll love this amp that I’ll gladly return your purchase price if returned in original condition within X days of your receipt.  Bid with confidence!"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I built a replica of a Tweed Fender Princeton (5f2-a), and have been > thinking about selling it. Its a handmade all tube amp built very close to > original specs (a few small voltage adjustments made to compensate for > modern household line voltages). It is housed in a beautiful Tweed covered > combo cab with a really nice shiney chassis, and has a jensen Alnico 10" > speaker installed (its the biigger box version). > What is an amp like this worth? > Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that break > the rules of this group? >What I would do is price it against what a similar vintage Princeton >would go for and then go a bit lower.  I think what you’ll find is that >people who are going to be interested in that type of amp are going to >prefer to get an original Fender.  Additionally, while it might be a >very nice amplifier, it’s home brew and doesn’t have an automatic >resale value like a named brand would.

I agree.  The name brand should sell more, even if the homerolled amp is better by all accounts. >One thing I’ve learned from reading this group and doing some other >research is that building your own amplifier has to be a labor of love >as it actually costs more to DIY than buy a production model.

Good points.  And these things are always worth more to the seller, than the amp market because of the personal involvement. Where the real amp might have some investment value, it’s very understandable that the homerolled amp doesn’t. >Since your amp is an unknown, I think your best bet is to sell it >locally where potential buyers can check it out and hear what it sounds >like in person.

I’m not sure if that’s completely true that it’s the best bet.  But if you can decide what it’s worth, then why not try to sell it on the local market? If it doesn’t sell locally, the internet (usually means Ebay) exposes the amp to a much wider market. If you can find a buyer on aga, it might be a whole lot less hassle than dealing with Ebay. fwiw, I don’t have a clue what it’s worth. Pete — I still have room to think. Bring me more information! –Dr. Cerebral

Response:

> I built a replica of a Tweed Fender Princeton (5f2-a), and have been > thinking about selling it. Its a handmade all tube amp built very close to > original specs (a few small voltage adjustments made to compensate for > modern household line voltages). It is housed in a beautiful Tweed covered > combo cab with a really nice shiney chassis, and has a jensen Alnico 10" > speaker installed (its the biigger box version). > What is an amp like this worth? > Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that break > the rules of this group?

Easy way to find out.  Put it on Ebay with a starting price of a dollar and no reserve.  Whatever it sells for, that’s what it’s worth! Chris

Response:

>fwiw, I don’t have a clue what it’s worth. >Pete

How much is invested in the amp in parts? Pete — I still have room to think. Bring me more information! –Dr. Cerebral

Response:

A home-built tweed champ clone with a crap speaker swapped in went for $255 on E-bay recently. I guess you have a tone control and you did put in a bigger speaker. So maybe you can get $300 or so on a good day if they really like the tweed look as well as sound.  But if $50 more gets a blackface champ, why should people buy yours? A home-built plain cabinet 5F2A w/10" went for $250.

Response:

> What is an amp like this worth? > Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that break > the rules of this group?

  There is no stinking rules in this group !   Don’t  expect to get what you put into   it in cost back. Post some photos some where  and let’s see what it looks like, You never know.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->What is an amp like this worth? >Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that > break >the rules of this group? >   There is no stinking rules in this group ! >   Don’t  expect to get what you put into >   it in cost back. Post some photos some where >  and let’s see what it looks like, You never know.

Hi, Yup. No matter how well done, home brew or assembled kit never bring back the cost involved. For me I just do it from now and then for fun. If I sell, I never forget this long standing fact in real world. Having fun in itself has value(?). I’d think so, LOL. Tony

Response:

> What is an amp like this worth? > Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that > break > the rules of this group? >   There is no stinking rules in this group ! >   Don’t  expect to get what you put into >   it in cost back. Post some photos some where >  and let’s see what it looks like, You never know.

There’s no rules… except, no postie no pikky here. __ Steve .

Response:

Hi,     The old Princeton was a nice little amp. If you used all new parts and the repro transformers, the amp is worth what any of the new reproduction Fender Champ or Princetons are worth. But, it will not be worth as much as an original. Such an amp is probably worth around $350.00 or so. Since it is new, and if you did a real professional job on the amp, it could be worth more, especially if you sell it with a warrantee like Fender does when you buy one of their new amps. But if you sell it as – is and it is a rather amateur looking job, you may only be able to  recover the cost of parts. Make sure you have several detailed pictures of the amp and offer it here first. See if you get any bites. I don’t think it would break the rules but maybe I’m wrong. What’s the worse they could do? I mean it is a guitar amp and this is alt.guitar.amps.     If you put it on ebay, have a reserve of at least the cost of the parts. A tube amp is worth at least that.                     Bill B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I built a replica of a Tweed Fender Princeton (5f2-a), and have been > thinking about selling it. Its a handmade all tube amp built very close to > original specs (a few small voltage adjustments made to compensate for > modern household line voltages). It is housed in a beautiful Tweed covered > combo cab with a really nice shiney chassis, and has a jensen Alnico 10" > speaker installed (its the biigger box version). > What is an amp like this worth? > Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or does that break > the rules of this group?

Response:

> I built a replica of a Tweed Fender Princeton (5f2-a), and have been > thinking about selling it. Its a handmade all tube amp built very close to > original specs (a few small voltage adjustments made to compensate for > modern household line voltages). It is housed in a beautiful Tweed covered > combo cab with a really nice shiney chassis, and has a jensen Alnico 10" > speaker installed (its the biigger box version). > What is an amp like this worth?

Whatever the market will bear on a given day. As Bill B. says, it’s worth at least the cost of the parts.  If you used a quality cabinet, a good chassis (e.g. WeberVST), and good transformers (e.g. Mercury Magnetics), that sum could be quite a bit. If your soldering is up to snuff, and your layout is careful, it will be worth a little more. No, it won’t be worth nearly as much as an original tweed Fender, but if you’re using the same parts as everybody else, and the workmanship is good, the quality should be roughly the same as any boutique 5F2. As others have said, though, the lack of a track record and warranty will lower the price. Expect around $300-$400 if all is in perfect shape. > Should I offer to sell it here before putting it on eBay, or > does that break the rules of this group?

Rules? Here? Ha! Of course not. Offer away. Either way, good pictures are a requirement. Regards,   –E

Response:

>A home-built tweed champ clone with a crap speaker swapped in went for > $255 on E-bay recently.

Just over a year ago I paid $250 for a SF Champ on eBay that had been gutted and rebuilt. It looks stock, but when the Volume Knob is in, it runs through a BF Tone Stack, and when the Volume Knob is pulled out, it runs through a Tweed Tone Stack. It has replaced my BF Champ as my around the house noise maker. See ya, John

Response:

     I have a friend with an 1965 newport, It has a BB with a 2bbl stromberg carb, I am guessing it is a 383, anyway the car has a 8 3/4 rear end and runs good, he wants $200 for the car.  I really don’t need the car but would buy it if the motor and rear end had some value, I don’t no the HP or anything, can someone tell me what motor and if its worth 200? —

Response:

>      I have a friend with an 1965 newport, It has a BB with a 2bbl stromberg > carb, I am guessing it is a 383, anyway the car has a 8 3/4 rear end and > runs good, he wants $200 for the car.  I really don’t need the car but would > buy it if the motor and rear end had some value, I don’t no the HP or > anything, can someone tell me what motor and if its worth 200? > —

Hi Chad,   I gave a ‘66 Newport to my brother with the same setup; I had the car several years.  The 383 2-bbl put out 270HP those years.  Couldn’t tell you if the car is worth $200 without a description but it probably is. BTW, where is the car located?  If you decide you don’t want it and it’s driveable I may be interested, as those Chryslers are among my favorites.  Thanks, — 608

Question:

> [...] > I do wish that BMW had equipped the Z3 with an integrated flip-up hard > boot for the convertible top, like the ones in the early Corvettes: > http://www.vintagecorvettes.com/57.html

Sometimes I wish I had that kind of trunk space for my Z3! > Aside from minor niggles with the convertible top design, I couldn’t be > happier with my Impala Brown 2000 Z3 2.5L.  It’s the roadster I’ve always > wanted, but with handling and safety features (DSC, ABS, side air bags) > that none of the classic roadsters possess.

I feel the same way about my ‘97 2.8.  There are a lot of older cars out there that would be a lot of fun, but I probably wouldn’t want to take them on a long trip.  Even though my Z3 has ~124K miles, I still wouldn’t hesitate to take it on a 1000 mile round trip to the beach. -=- Tom

Response:

> If you really want to cut down on the wind buffeting you around you can > try driving with the windows up some, or of course the top up, but > personally, I just drive with everything down (in good weather) and revel > in the open-ness!!

I agree, Fred.  I traded my ‘97 Z3 2.8 on an ‘03 Z4 3.0 and while the performance, improved top and added luggage space is great, I do miss the openness of the Z3.  The Z3’s cabin reminded me of a TR2 I briefly owned long ago – only with functioning (non-Lucas) electrics! Tom

Response:

> Mid 99 change mostly dealt with shape of the rear fenders, and trunk > lid and rear tail lights.  The later cars rear fenders are "humped" > shoulders. Brings to mind a football player with pads.

IMO, the redesigned Z3 rear quarters draw design cues from the legendary AC Cobra roadsters: http://www.xs4all.nl/~luukb/cobra02.jpg The pronounced, feminine "waist", just aft of the doors on the Cobra, is subtly captured in the redesigned Z3 body styling. In general, the Z3 draws many design cues from the classic Jaguar XKE roadsters. Note the subtle hood bulge, fender flares, rear quarter shapes in these photos: http://www.autoweek.com/images/classifieds/1711/4?3656720856589196927 http://www.autoweek.com/images/classifieds/1711/1?3567486724233548349 I do wish that BMW had equipped the Z3 with an integrated flip-up hard boot for the convertible top, like the ones in the early Corvettes: http://www.vintagecorvettes.com/57.html Notice how seamlessly the flip-up hard boot integrates with the chrome-trimmed seat surrounds. This is a very elegant design. Also note how the exhaust ports are integrated into the rear fenders.  My father has a Vette exactly like this one.  IMO, it’s one of the most beautiful roadsters ever made. Aside from minor niggles with the convertible top design, I couldn’t be happier with my Impala Brown 2000 Z3 2.5L.  It’s the roadster I’ve always wanted, but with handling and safety features (DSC, ABS, side air bags) that none of the classic roadsters possess. B – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wind deflector makes a HUGE difference. >I’ve been reading various reviews, specifications for the 2.8L model in >different publications (online & in print) and there seems to be some >confusion with regard to the age (and UK Reg letter) of the very last >2.8L. >Also, "A face-lift in April ‘99 brought better insulation for the hood as >well as some minor cosmetic changes" was mentioned…can anyone shed any >light on this cosmetic change etc..? >Finally, does a Wind Deflector make THAT MUCH difference to the enjoyment >of >this car as some have suggested that it does (in a good way)? >Cheers.

Response:

> I’ve been reading various reviews, specifications for the 2.8L model in > different publications (online & in print) and there seems to be some > confusion with regard to the age (and UK Reg letter) of the very last > 2.8L. > Also, "A face-lift in April ‘99 brought better insulation for the hood as > well as some minor cosmetic changes" was mentioned…can anyone shed any > light on this cosmetic change etc..? > Finally, does a Wind Deflector make THAT MUCH difference to the enjoyment > of this car as some have suggested that it does (in a good way)?

I own this exact car, and no, in my opinion it does not make a *huge* difference.  It makes a small amount of difference as to how much back draft you get, which my wife seems to appreciate more than I do, but it is not that big of a deal to me. If you really want to cut down on the wind buffeting you around you can try driving with the windows up some, or of course the top up, but personally, I just drive with everything down (in good weather) and revel in the open-ness!! -Fred W ‘97 Z3 2.8 ‘95 325i ‘94 540iA

Response:

Mid 99 change mostly dealt with shape of the rear fenders, and trunk lid and rear tail lights.  The later cars rear fenders are "humped" shoulders. Brings to mind a football player with pads. Wind deflector makes a HUGE difference. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’ve been reading various reviews, specifications for the 2.8L model in >different publications (online & in print) and there seems to be some >confusion with regard to the age (and UK Reg letter) of the very last 2.8L. >Also, "A face-lift in April ‘99 brought better insulation for the hood as >well as some minor cosmetic changes" was mentioned…can anyone shed any >light on this cosmetic change etc..? >Finally, does a Wind Deflector make THAT MUCH difference to the enjoyment of >this car as some have suggested that it does (in a good way)? >Cheers.

Response:

> I’ve been reading various reviews, specifications for the 2.8L model in > different publications (online & in print) and there seems to be some > confusion with regard to the age (and UK Reg letter) of the very last 2.8L. > Also, "A face-lift in April ‘99 brought better insulation for the hood as > well as some minor cosmetic changes" was mentioned…can anyone shed any > light on this cosmetic change etc..? > Finally, does a Wind Deflector make THAT MUCH difference to the enjoyment of > this car as some have suggested that it does (in a good way)?

From my limited experience with open top vehicles, the wind deflector shoulud make a huge difference. The airflow is over the passenger compartment because of the rake of the windshield, but the bubble collapses just behind the passneger compartment, and the relative low air pressure behind the windshield acts like a vacuum and draws air against the back of one’s head. People with short hair, and a hat, probably wouldn’t notice or care, but people with long hair will be constantly brushing their hair out of their face if you don’t have the deflector, or they will want to tie their hair into a pony tail and wear a hat. If you enjoy smoking a cigar while driving, the deflector will be a very nice touch. You will find the heater is more effective as well.

Response:

I’ve been reading various reviews, specifications for the 2.8L model in different publications (online & in print) and there seems to be some confusion with regard to the age (and UK Reg letter) of the very last 2.8L. Also, "A face-lift in April ‘99 brought better insulation for the hood as well as some minor cosmetic changes" was mentioned…can anyone shed any light on this cosmetic change etc..? Finally, does a Wind Deflector make THAT MUCH difference to the enjoyment of this car as some have suggested that it does (in a good way)? Cheers.

Response:

Question:

>I haven’t had a problem with my 325i, but my sister had a problem with > her sciatica nerve when she first changed from her VW to a 320i. > Didn’t think of the car untill the doctor asked if she had changed > seats at work.  Moved the seat around a bit and problem went away.

Six weeks prior to back surgery for a herniated disc, I drove my E46 328i (with sport seats) on a four day, 2300 mile business trip.  Experimenting with position and lumbar support made the trip bearable – although I still don’t care for the non adjustable side bolsters. Tom

Response:

It is real! , I had some time off work recently and had to limit the amount of driving I was doing without breaks.  I was experiencing tingling in the lower leg and a pain in the crease between my arse and my thigh.  I was in the car for about 8 hours per day over about 3 consecutive days.  I thought it was circulation and possibly DVT related like experienced on planes but the doctor said that it was almost certainly related to my back as the nerves (sciatic and leg) run down through the back. The jolting in the car doesn’t help.  He also mentioned that it wasn’t necessarily due to the car, but possibly an existing condition aggrevated with the prolonged driving. Your body isn’t designed to be in that position for too long and you need a break to recover.  Sometimes I can drive for a long time without too much problem and sometimes the pain comes back on shorter journeys.  Having a BMW with a hard ride doesn’t help one little bit!  But,if you are financially committed or in love with your BMW and changing car is out of the question, then all you can do is 1) Try adjusting the seat, 2) take adequate breaks, 3) keep fit generally.  But changing car won’t always work as I had discomfort even further back in a 306 DTurbo with 14" alloys, again when I was doing too much driving without enough rest. MC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have a ‘98 M3 sedan (different seats than the 2 door), and the seat >comfort is horrible on 2 hour drives.  Pain the lower back, and right shin >and the back of the upper right leg.  No adjustments help.  My wife gets >lower back pain as a passenger.  Not sure what the problem is, but it is >real. > – Phil > Hi > I just got a 330Ci sport cab with all the trimmings. Very nice too. Last > weekend I went out in it with my wife for about two hours drive. The > following day I returned from the UK to Italy, where I work, and was > surprised to discover I could hardly walk, having partially lost motor > control over my left knee. I thought little of it until my wife phoned > and > told me she’d had the same problem with _both_ knees! > I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the > electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem? > Cheers > Geoff

Response:

>I have a ‘98 M3 sedan (different seats than the 2 door), and the seat >comfort is horrible on 2 hour drives.  Pain the lower back, and right shin >and the back of the upper right leg.  No adjustments help.  My wife gets >lower back pain as a passenger.  Not sure what the problem is, but it is >real.

The seats in my 323 (E46) are one of the few things I don’t like about the car.  The seats in my previous Hondas (Prelude Si, CRX Si) were MUCH better-shaped.

Response:

>Ehhh, well I didn’t at least. I have a 328Ci with electric adjustable >seats and no problems with knees. I’m unsure how to link knee problems >to the chairs (unless you kept adjusting it back and forth banging your >knees into the dash ).

Do they tilt back?  Maybe that’s cutting off the circulation to the lower legs? -Ted

Response:

<snipped description of knee problem> > I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the > electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem?

I dunno if thats what caused it for you, but I did have a problem like that once when I drove for +-18 hours with no stops except to fuel. I drove a golf 1, and when I finally stepped out of the car, half crazed with hunger and fatigue my knees rapidly responded "oh no you dont!". I now routinely drive two 6-hour-long trips a month, and find that my knees appreciate it more when the seat is at its highest position. YMMV. goose,     the bee’s knees

Response:

I haven’t had a problem with my 325i, but my sister had a problem with her sciatica nerve when she first changed from her VW to a 320i. Didn’t think of the car untill the doctor asked if she had changed seats at work.  Moved the seat around a bit and problem went away. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi >I just got a 330Ci sport cab with all the trimmings. Very nice too. Last >weekend I went out in it with my wife for about two hours drive. The >following day I returned from the UK to Italy, where I work, and was >surprised to discover I could hardly walk, having partially lost motor >control over my left knee. I thought little of it until my wife phoned and >told me she’d had the same problem with _both_ knees! >I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the >electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem? >Cheers >Geoff

Response:

> Hi > I just got a 330Ci sport cab with all the trimmings. Very nice too. Last > weekend I went out in it with my wife for about two hours drive. The > following day I returned from the UK to Italy, where I work, and was > surprised to discover I could hardly walk, having partially lost motor > control over my left knee. I thought little of it until my wife phoned and > told me she’d had the same problem with _both_ knees! > I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the > electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem?

The seat pan is adjustable in both height and tilt. I don’t know where it was set, but I’d try raising and tilting the seat pan towards the back at what seems a more natural feel. It may also help to recline the seat back a bit. I find that riding for an extended period of time with my knees too straight leaves them feeling sore for some time afterwards. Positioning the seat less upright and in a position where there’s a bit of bend at the knee eliminates that problem. — The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

Response:

> Hi > I just got a 330Ci sport cab with all the trimmings. Very nice too. Last > weekend I went out in it with my wife for about two hours drive. The > following day I returned from the UK to Italy, where I work, and was > surprised to discover I could hardly walk, having partially lost motor > control over my left knee. I thought little of it until my wife phoned and > told me she’d had the same problem with _both_ knees! > I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the > electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem? > Cheers > Geoff

When I got my first BMW my left knee ached for quite some time but simply because the clutch was much heavier than in my previosu car. If I go skiing now, my right leg burns pretty quick but the left keeps goign all day

Response:

I have a ‘98 M3 sedan (different seats than the 2 door), and the seat comfort is horrible on 2 hour drives.  Pain the lower back, and right shin and the back of the upper right leg.  No adjustments help.  My wife gets lower back pain as a passenger.  Not sure what the problem is, but it is real. – Phil

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > I just got a 330Ci sport cab with all the trimmings. Very nice too. Last > weekend I went out in it with my wife for about two hours drive. The > following day I returned from the UK to Italy, where I work, and was > surprised to discover I could hardly walk, having partially lost motor > control over my left knee. I thought little of it until my wife phoned and > told me she’d had the same problem with _both_ knees! > I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the > electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem? > Cheers > Geoff

Response:

Hi I just got a 330Ci sport cab with all the trimmings. Very nice too. Last weekend I went out in it with my wife for about two hours drive. The following day I returned from the UK to Italy, where I work, and was surprised to discover I could hardly walk, having partially lost motor control over my left knee. I thought little of it until my wife phoned and told me she’d had the same problem with _both_ knees! I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem? Cheers Geoff

Response:

> Hi

[SNIP knee problem] > I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the > electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem?

Ehhh, well I didn’t at least. I have a 328Ci with electric adjustable seats and no problems with knees. I’m unsure how to link knee problems to the chairs (unless you kept adjusting it back and forth banging your knees into the dash ). Regards, — Arnold http://www.ligtvoet.org – Edmund Blackadder said : "I have a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel!" Ask smart questions : http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Response:

Do you and your wife engage in any kind of strenuous activity when you are home on leave? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi > I just got a 330Ci sport cab with all the trimmings. Very nice too. Last > weekend I went out in it with my wife for about two hours drive. The > following day I returned from the UK to Italy, where I work, and was > surprised to discover I could hardly walk, having partially lost motor > control over my left knee. I thought little of it until my wife phoned and > told me she’d had the same problem with _both_ knees! > I’m wondering if this was caused by the seats in the car. These are the > electrically adjustable ones – anyone else had this problem? > Cheers > Geoff

Response:

Question:

found this on the news wires.. in a way it’s funny, and in a way sad that simple things can cause colissal inconvenience…. If I were to have come upon the trash can, I would have probably located and removed the item vs shutting down the airport…. If you’re going to blow something up, normally you would not want the bomb discovered until it detonates…… bombs usually don’t draw attention to themselves…. they just go BOOMB and do their damage…. granted the vibrator could be used as an attention getter followed by an explosive to hurt the curious….possible, but unlikely +++ A scare triggered by a vibrating sex toy shut down a major Australian regional airport for almost an hour Monday, police said. The vibrating object was discovered Monday morning inside a garbage can at the terminal cafeteria at Mackay Airport in Queensland state, a police spokeswoman said. Cafeteria manager Lynne Bryant said her staff had been cleaning tables when they noticed a strange humming noise coming from the garbage can. advertisement "It was rather disconcerting when the rubbish bin started humming furiously," Bryant said. "We called security and next minute everybody was being evacuated while they checked it out." The police spokeswoman said the terminal was evacuated immediately. Passengers who had arrived on a recent flight, check-in staff, cafeteria employees and hire car personnel were all forced to leave. "Another two flights were expected to land at that stage but alternate arrangements were made for the passengers to collect their luggage away from the terminal," the spokeswoman said on the usual condition of anonymity. She said the emergency alert was canceled after 45 minutes when the package was identified as an adult sex toy. Bryant said in retrospect, the humming sounded exactly like a vibrator, but it was better to be safe then sorry. —  + www.analon.com [UNIX/X-Windows & CDE] 888-5-ANALON …Chemistry, Computer systems, software & networks that WORK! …..Send ASCII TEXT mail/attchmnts ONLY!!** I use UNIX & LINUX!!

Response:

> found this on the news wires.. in a way it’s funny, and in a way sad > that simple things can cause colissal inconvenience…. > A scare triggered by a vibrating sex toy shut down a major Australian > regional airport for almost an hour Monday, police said.

Mackay doesn’t really qualify as a "major" airport. > Bryant said in retrospect, the humming sounded exactly like a vibrator, > but it was better to be safe then sorry.

There was an "Airline" episode where a "vibrator" started to do its stuff in a piece of luggage that was in the luggage office. They didn’t evacuate the airport and the staff immediatly knew it was a vibrator. Turns out that when they opened it, it was an electric toothbrush. And anyone who has seen movies with bombs knows that bombs either have a "click click" sound, or a "beep" every second with a bigger beep just as it is about to detonate.

Response:

this is not unique to "minor" airports, this sort of nonsense happens everywhere lets get real….. someone wanting to cause harm or destruction does not want their device discovered……  this is not the first time a vibrator or sex toy caused delay of  flights – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> found this on the news wires.. in a way it’s funny, and in a way sad > that simple things can cause colissal inconvenience…. > A scare triggered by a vibrating sex toy shut down a major Australian > regional airport for almost an hour Monday, police said. > Mackay doesn’t really qualify as a "major" airport. > Bryant said in retrospect, the humming sounded exactly like a vibrator, > but it was better to be safe then sorry. > There was an "Airline" episode where a "vibrator" started to do its stuff in a > piece of luggage that was in the luggage office. They didn’t evacuate the > airport and the staff immediatly knew it was a vibrator. Turns out that when > they opened it, it was an electric toothbrush. > And anyone who has seen movies with bombs knows that bombs either have a > "click click" sound, or a "beep" every second with a bigger beep just as it is > about to detonate.

– …Chemistry, Computer systems, software & networks that WORK! …..Send ASCII TEXT mail/attchmnts ONLY!!** I use UNIX & LINUX!!

Response:

Question:

We have had 4wd drive vehicles for the past 30 years and are now considering changing from a suv to an awd as we don’t do any more four wheeling and have moved to an area with less snow. I am considering buying a 330xi and I would like to hear from owners about how they like this vehicle.   Does it perform well in awd?   Any major problems or maintenance headaches?   Would you buy another?  And anything else of interest I would appreciate knowing before I take the plunge. Thanks for any responses, Frank

Response:

> We have had 4wd drive vehicles for the past 30 years and are now > considering changing from a suv to an awd as we don’t do any more four > wheeling and have moved to an area with less snow. > I am considering buying a 330xi and I would like to hear from owners > about how they like this vehicle.   Does it perform well in awd?   Any > major problems or maintenance headaches?   Would you buy another?  And > anything else of interest I would appreciate knowing before I take the > plunge.

I’m sure that you’ve googled this group for previous responses; quite a few, and also many about snow vs. all-season vs. summer tires. I’ve got almost 60K miles on my ‘01 330xi – three winters.  I ski (instruct) about 90 days a year – so I’ve probably had it in more snow/ice than even someone from Buffalo.  Only problems I’ve had with it were covered by the warranty, and were exclusively non-drive-train issues with radio, seats, etc. I’ve only had it stuck once – high-centered on melting compacted snow. I get 28-30mpg highway, normally around 24.5 city/highway.  It uses about 1 quart oil in 5K miles.  It’s quite powerful and fast (not in the league with the NSX it replaced!), almost as fast as my wife’s Boxster.  Be sure to get the heated seats. 1) It comes with all-seasons (mine are Conti Sport Contact), which give it adequate performance in snow. 2)  Last winter, I put on a set of 4 Michelin Pilot Alpine tires.  The difference between snow and all-season tires is as great as the difference between summer and all-season tires.  I went from being able to spin 2-3 tires on snow to not being able to do so (with TCS off.) 3)  Putting on a set of summer tires (I use a set of 325i 8×17" rims and 225/45R17 Michelin Pilot MXM) is the best way to add handling performance on dry roads – significantly better than the standard 205/50R17 all-seasons. 4)  The car is *always* in AWD – I’m sure that you know that, although your question implied otherwise. 5)  The new models with XDrive are likely to be better (due to the locking center diff) than mine, in the snow. 6)  My wife almost bought an X3 (identical mechanicals, more space), but decided to cheap it out with a Toyota Highlander instead.  The main deciding factor was that she hated the steering (speed-sensitive).  Not sure if it’s now standard on 330xi. BTW, if you want to see flamewars, just ask Audi, bmw and Subaru groups which system is better.  The answer is:  it doesn’t matter, they’re all good. Floyd (in Seattle)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We have had 4wd drive vehicles for the past 30 years and are now > considering changing from a suv to an awd as we don’t do any more four > wheeling and have moved to an area with less snow. > I am considering buying a 330xi and I would like to hear from owners > about how they like this vehicle.   Does it perform well in awd?   Any > major problems or maintenance headaches?   Would you buy another?  And > anything else of interest I would appreciate knowing before I take the > plunge. > I’m sure that you’ve googled this group for previous responses; quite a few, > and also many about snow vs. all-season vs. summer tires. > I’ve got almost 60K miles on my ‘01 330xi – three winters.  I ski (instruct) > about 90 days a year – so I’ve probably had it in more snow/ice than even > someone from Buffalo.  Only problems I’ve had with it were covered by > the warranty, and were exclusively non-drive-train issues with radio, > seats, etc. > I’ve only had it stuck once – high-centered on melting compacted snow. > I get 28-30mpg highway, normally around 24.5 city/highway.  It uses about > 1 quart oil in 5K miles.  It’s quite powerful and fast (not in the league > with > the NSX it replaced!), almost as fast as my wife’s Boxster.  Be sure to get > the heated seats. > 1) It comes with all-seasons (mine are Conti Sport Contact), which give > it adequate performance in snow. > 2)  Last winter, I put on a set of 4 Michelin Pilot Alpine tires.  The > difference > between snow and all-season tires is as great as the difference between > summer and all-season tires.  I went from being able to spin 2-3 tires on > snow to not being able to do so (with TCS off.) > 3)  Putting on a set of summer tires (I use a set of 325i 8×17" rims and > 225/45R17 Michelin Pilot MXM) is the best way to add handling performance > on dry roads – significantly better than the standard 205/50R17 all-seasons. > 4)  The car is *always* in AWD – I’m sure that you know that, although > your question implied otherwise. > 5)  The new models with XDrive are likely to be better (due to the locking > center diff) than mine, in the snow. > 6)  My wife almost bought an X3 (identical mechanicals, more space), > but decided to cheap it out with a Toyota Highlander instead.  The main > deciding factor was that she hated the steering (speed-sensitive).  Not > sure if it’s now standard on 330xi. > BTW, if you want to see flamewars, just ask Audi, bmw and Subaru > groups which system is better.  The answer is:  it doesn’t matter, > they’re all good. > Floyd (in Seattle)

Thanks for the in-depth reply and I did know some of the stuff you mentioned but I just wanted to feel better before buying.    I didn’t expect quite that much gas mileage as my wife’s BMW 530i gets 23-24 but I expect it is heavier than the 330. Again thanks for the help, Frank

Response:

> Thanks for the in-depth reply and I did know some of the stuff you > mentioned but I just wanted to feel better before buying.    I didn’t > expect quite that much gas mileage as my wife’s BMW 530i gets 23-24 but > I expect it is heavier than the 330.

Actually, the 330xi is about the same weight, and generally gets about 1-2mpg less than a similar 530i (mine is a 5 speed).  The 330xi has a higher numerical final drive to keep the performance about the same as a 330i. Floyd

Response:

> We have had 4wd drive vehicles for the past 30 years and are now > considering changing from a suv to an awd as we don’t do any more four > wheeling and have moved to an area with less snow. > I am considering buying a 330xi and I would like to hear from owners > about how they like this vehicle.   Does it perform well in awd?   Any > major problems or maintenance headaches?   Would you buy another?  And > anything else of interest I would appreciate knowing before I take the > plunge. > Thanks for any responses, > Frank

I have an 02 330xi with currently about 53k miles on it. Absolutely wonderful car.  Quite fast.  Goes well in the snow, never been stuck (knock on wood).  Great track car in the rain.  Beats the crap out of everything with 2-wheel drive when it’s wet.  Great track car in the dry, too….lots of fun.  I thought about getting something else from BMW, but there is nothing I could get that would be better than what I already have.  If they had a 4-door M3xi I’d jump on it….but they don’t (yet). Buy one, they’re a hoot. What’s the BMW advertisement?……world’s fastest snowplow…..believe it. Tom Allen St. Louis http://www.allencg.com/bmw.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > We have had 4wd drive vehicles for the past 30 years and are now > > considering changing from a suv to an awd as we don’t do any more four > > wheeling and have moved to an area with less snow. > > I am considering buying a 330xi and I would like to hear from owners > > about how they like this vehicle.   Does it perform well in awd?   Any > > major problems or maintenance headaches?   Would you buy another?  And > > anything else of interest I would appreciate knowing before I take the > > plunge. > I’m sure that you’ve googled this group for previous responses; quite a few, > and also many about snow vs. all-season vs. summer tires. > I’ve got almost 60K miles on my ‘01 330xi – three winters.  I ski (instruct) > about 90 days a year – so I’ve probably had it in more snow/ice than even > someone from Buffalo.  Only problems I’ve had with it were covered by > the warranty, and were exclusively non-drive-train issues with radio, > seats, etc. > I’ve only had it stuck once – high-centered on melting compacted snow. > I get 28-30mpg highway, normally around 24.5 city/highway.  It uses about > 1 quart oil in 5K miles.  It’s quite powerful and fast (not in the league > with > the NSX it replaced!), almost as fast as my wife’s Boxster.  Be sure to get > the heated seats. > 1) It comes with all-seasons (mine are Conti Sport Contact), which give > it adequate performance in snow. > 2)  Last winter, I put on a set of 4 Michelin Pilot Alpine tires.  The > difference > between snow and all-season tires is as great as the difference between > summer and all-season tires.  I went from being able to spin 2-3 tires on > snow to not being able to do so (with TCS off.) > 3)  Putting on a set of summer tires (I use a set of 325i 8×17" rims and > 225/45R17 Michelin Pilot MXM) is the best way to add handling performance > on dry roads – significantly better than the standard 205/50R17 all-seasons. > 4)  The car is *always* in AWD – I’m sure that you know that, although > your question implied otherwise. > 5)  The new models with XDrive are likely to be better (due to the locking > center diff) than mine, in the snow. > 6)  My wife almost bought an X3 (identical mechanicals, more space), > but decided to cheap it out with a Toyota Highlander instead.  The main > deciding factor was that she hated the steering (speed-sensitive).  Not > sure if it’s now standard on 330xi. > BTW, if you want to see flamewars, just ask Audi, bmw and Subaru > groups which system is better.  The answer is:  it doesn’t matter, > they’re all good. > Floyd (in Seattle) > Thanks for the in-depth reply and I did know some of the stuff you > mentioned but I just wanted to feel better before buying.    I didn’t > expect quite that much gas mileage as my wife’s BMW 530i gets 23-24 but > I expect it is heavier than the 330. > Again thanks for the help, > Frank

Here’s another Seattle area 330xi owner chiming in. Mine’s a 2002 model year with about 36K miles. No problems at all. I checked the computer and it shows 23.9mpg. I don’t think I’ve ever reset it. For comparison, my 2001 540i 6-speed show 22mpg. The NAV system is useful but is really bad compared to newer systems on Lexus, etc. I haven’t had it in snow very much but I had no problems at all with the little there was even with the original Conti all seasons.

Response:

> We have had 4wd drive vehicles for the past 30 years and are now > considering changing from a suv to an awd as we don’t do any more four > wheeling and have moved to an area with less snow. > I am considering buying a 330xi and I would like to hear from owners > about how they like this vehicle.   Does it perform well in awd?   Any > major problems or maintenance headaches?   Would you buy another?  And > anything else of interest I would appreciate knowing before I take the > plunge. > Thanks for any responses, > Frank

Frank…. Here are a couple of other thoughts regarding the 330xi….. I drive rather aggressively and have somewhat of a lead foot…my gas mileage is usually around 18 to 20 mpg in normal driving and 24 on long highway trips….but I also got 29 mpg on a less aggressive highway trip.  My last car was an SUV and I was used to 10-11 mpg, so 18 is still a major improvement. The AWD on wet roads is outstanding.  Don’t let anyone try to convince you that snow tires on a 2wd car will give you similar traction in the snow….not a chance.  You’re used to an awd or 4wd car, so you will probably agree 100%…..it’s true on almost any car.  But don’t forget it isn’t a 4wd pickup or an Excursion with 4 feet of ground clearance…..in a snow storm you’re going to start dragging ass after 6 or 8 inches accumulate. The performance of the xi is excellent.  Not as good as the 330i (2wd), but still excellent.  If that extra half second going from 0 to 60 makes a big difference to you, get the 330i.  But for me the xi is plenty fast.  I even have an automatic which takes away more performance.  But compared to my old Ford Expedition (or anything else I’ve ever owned for that matter)…..this thing is a rocket. I, too, have had something with 4wd or awd for the past 30 years which is why I got the xi.  I wanted a BMW, didn’t want a SUV and finally decided on the xi…..and am very glad I did. I have had very few maintenance problems.  A tough electrical problem at 5,000 miles….turned out to be a crimped spark plug wire….no problems since.  I’ve had two torn cv’s on the front wheels that caused grease to splatter around on the wheels.  But I think I caused them myself on an autocross day….replaced under warranty. Been through lots of tires….in 53k miles I’m on my 4th set…..track days and aggressive driving eat up tires on this car.  But I’m the cause of it, not the car’s fault.  If you buy sticky high performance tires, the wear very quickly, but they’re a hoot to drive on. I got all three packages…sport, premium and cold weather….very glad I got all three.  Best part of the sport package are the seats….love them.  Premium package, great leather, gotta have a moonroof, tilt down right side mirror is great, light sensing rear view mirror is great, rain sensing wipers are wonderful.  Since I ended up putting so many miles on this car (it has seen its share of these united states), I wish I had purchased the navigation system.  I had no idea that I would take this car where I have, so far away from home, so often.  I’ve been totally lost a few times.  Never thought I’d ever use the fold down rear seats, but I’m amazed at the number of times they have been very helpful….glad I have them. I like the xenon’s.  Very used to them now.  When I drive someone else’s car, I can’t stand their headlights, seem very yellow and dim. The car after 53k miles is still very tight….no rattles….no shakes….no noises…..none!….still very quiet when the windows are up…..I commented to a friend just the other day at how this car maintains it’s "solidness" after 2.5 years of ownership and 53,000 miles. They’re built to last. It’s my favorite toy. Tom Allen St. Louis

Response:

2001 330xi Summer performance rubber/winter snows Ottawa, Canada never has nad any problems great drive all year round you’ll never regret it first car that i have purchased at the end of a lease before i liked it so much have had 6 bmw over the last 20 years currently track a ‘90 325i tried other but the drive never compares

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We have had 4wd drive vehicles for the past 30 years and are now > considering changing from a suv to an awd as we don’t do any more four > wheeling and have moved to an area with less snow. > I am considering buying a 330xi and I would like to hear from owners > about how they like this vehicle.   Does it perform well in awd?   Any > major problems or maintenance headaches?   Would you buy another?  And > anything else of interest I would appreciate knowing before I take the > plunge. > Thanks for any responses, > Frank > Frank…. > Here are a couple of other thoughts regarding the 330xi….. > I drive rather aggressively and have somewhat of a lead foot…my gas > mileage is usually around 18 to 20 mpg in normal driving and 24 on long > highway trips….but I also got 29 mpg on a less aggressive highway trip. > My last car was an SUV and I was used to 10-11 mpg, so 18 is still a major > improvement. > The AWD on wet roads is outstanding.  Don’t let anyone try to convince you > that snow tires on a 2wd car will give you similar traction in the > snow….not a chance.  You’re used to an awd or 4wd car, so you will > probably agree 100%…..it’s true on almost any car.  But don’t forget it > isn’t a 4wd pickup or an Excursion with 4 feet of ground clearance…..in > a snow storm you’re going to start dragging ass after 6 or 8 inches > accumulate. > The performance of the xi is excellent.  Not as good as the 330i (2wd), > but still excellent.  If that extra half second going from 0 to 60 makes a > big difference to you, get the 330i.  But for me the xi is plenty fast.  I > even have an automatic which takes away more performance.  But compared to > my old Ford Expedition (or anything else I’ve ever owned for that > matter)…..this thing is a rocket. > I, too, have had something with 4wd or awd for the past 30 years which is > why I got the xi.  I wanted a BMW, didn’t want a SUV and finally decided > on the xi…..and am very glad I did. > I have had very few maintenance problems.  A tough electrical problem at > 5,000 miles….turned out to be a crimped spark plug wire….no problems > since.  I’ve had two torn cv’s on the front wheels that caused grease to > splatter around on the wheels.  But I think I caused them myself on an > autocross day….replaced under warranty. > Been through lots of tires….in 53k miles I’m on my 4th set…..track > days and aggressive driving eat up tires on this car.  But I’m the cause > of it, not the car’s fault.  If you buy sticky high performance tires, the > wear very quickly, but they’re a hoot to drive on. > I got all three packages…sport, premium and cold weather….very glad I > got all three.  Best part of the sport package are the seats….love them. > Premium package, great leather, gotta have a moonroof, tilt down right > side mirror is great, light sensing rear view mirror is great, rain > sensing wipers are wonderful.  Since I ended up putting so many miles on > this car (it has seen its share of these united states), I wish I had > purchased the navigation system.  I had no idea that I would take this car > where I have, so far away from home, so often.  I’ve been totally lost a > few times.  Never thought I’d ever use the fold down rear seats, but I’m > amazed at the number of times they have been very helpful….glad I have > them. > I like the xenon’s.  Very used to them now.  When I drive someone else’s > car, I can’t stand their headlights, seem very yellow and dim. > The car after 53k miles is still very tight….no rattles….no > shakes….no noises…..none!….still very quiet when the windows are > up…..I commented to a friend just the other day at how this car > maintains it’s "solidness" after 2.5 years of ownership and 53,000 miles. > They’re built to last. > It’s my favorite toy. > Tom Allen > St. Louis

Response:

> 5)  The new models with XDrive are likely to be better (due to the locking > center diff) than mine, in the snow.

What new models are you talking about that have XDrive? Just the X3 and X5 or is it the new 3 series too?

Response:

>> 5)  The new models with XDrive are likely to be better (due to the > locking > center diff) than mine, in the snow. > What new models are you talking about that have XDrive? Just the X3 and X5 > or is it the new 3 series too?

I may have mis-construed some comments about the 2006 3-series to apply to current models – I can’t find anything that says 2005 models have xDrive. Floyd

Response:

I have a 2005 330xi on order with every available option except for the sport package (didn’t want that because it makes the ride too stiff). Right now, my car is at the final preparation center before the dealer; I’m hoping to get it next week. What sort of sensation do you get when the AWD compensates for a slipping wheel?  My understanding is that it applies selective breaking to the slipping wheel to stop its spinning.  Is it a pulsing sensation like antilock break action, or is more of smooth breaking?  For example, let’s say you are climbing a snow/ice covered hill and start to get some slipping, what does the corrective action feel like? Also are you aware of any situations where dynamic stability control has kicked in?  If so, what’s that like? Phil

Response:

>I have a 2005 330xi on order with every available option except for the >sport > package (didn’t want that because it makes the ride too stiff). Right now, > my > car is at the final preparation center before the dealer; I’m hoping to > get it > next week.

BAD decision not to get the sport package:  the AWD sport package does not include the sport suspension.  All AWD 325/330xi have unique suspensions that ride about 3/4" higher than the non-sport package 3-series.  IMO, the sport seats is worth the price. > What sort of sensation do you get when the AWD compensates for a slipping > wheel?  My understanding is that it applies selective breaking to the > slipping > wheel to stop its spinning.  Is it a pulsing sensation like antilock break > action, or is more of smooth breaking?  For example, let’s say you are > climbing > a snow/ice covered hill and start to get some slipping, what does the > corrective action feel like?

It’s mostly pulsing.  However, the effect is very smooth.  I once decided I wanted to enter a snowy road ahead of a big line of cars.  I left DSC/ASC/ADB on, and just hammered the throttle and shifted at the redline.  Yeah, there was slipping, yeah there was ADB pulsing various wheels as they slipped, but it was straight ahead acceleration barely slower than on a dry surface. In low-traction conditions, you can feel the car begin to slew as one or more wheels slip, then you hear (and slightly feel) the ADB/DSC pulse one or more wheels (one to stop the slipping and one to correct the yaw).  You have to be careful not to lose momentum – that’s what the DSC off button is for. > Also are you aware of any situations where dynamic stability control has > kicked > in?  If so, what’s that like?

There’s one particular corner – off-camber downhill right-hander with a road imperfection/drop-off – that I play on all the time.  Basically, the DSC pulses the left rear/front right to apply yaw to correct the clockwise rotation induced, and away I go. Floyd

Response:

> BAD decision not to get the sport package:  the AWD sport package does not > include the sport suspension.  All AWD 325/330xi have unique suspensions > that ride about 3/4" higher than the non-sport package 3-series.  IMO, the > sport seats is worth the price.

I test drove cars with and without the sport package.  The ride with the sport package was significantly stiffer and less comfortable for normal driving.  I didn’t find any significant comfort advantage to the sport seats. > It’s mostly pulsing.  However, the effect is very smooth.  I once decided I > wanted to enter a snowy road ahead of a big line of cars.  I left > DSC/ASC/ADB > on, and just hammered the throttle and shifted at the redline.  Yeah, there > was slipping, yeah there was ADB pulsing various wheels as they slipped, > but it was straight ahead acceleration barely slower than on a dry surface.

OK, that’s good to hear. > There’s one particular corner – off-camber downhill right-hander with a road > imperfection/drop-off – that I play on all the time.  Basically, the DSC > pulses > the left rear/front right to apply yaw to correct the clockwise rotation > induced, > and away I go.

OK. Excellent.  I can hardly wait to get the car and then find some slippery spot. Phil

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We have had 4wd drive vehicles for the past 30 years and are now > considering changing from a suv to an awd as we don’t do any more four > wheeling and have moved to an area with less snow. > I am considering buying a 330xi and I would like to hear from owners > about how they like this vehicle.   Does it perform well in awd?   Any > major problems or maintenance headaches?   Would you buy another?  And > anything else of interest I would appreciate knowing before I take the > plunge. > Thanks for any responses, > Frank > Frank…. > Here are a couple of other thoughts regarding the 330xi….. > I drive rather aggressively and have somewhat of a lead > foot…my gas mileage is usually around 18 to 20 mpg in > normal driving and 24 on long highway trips….but I also > got 29 mpg on a less aggressive highway trip.  My last car > was an SUV and I was used to 10-11 mpg, so 18 is still a > major improvement. > The AWD on wet roads is outstanding.  Don’t let anyone try > to convince you that snow tires on a 2wd car will give you > similar traction in the snow….not a chance.  You’re used > to an awd or 4wd car, so you will probably agree > 100%…..it’s true on almost any car.  But don’t forget it > isn’t a 4wd pickup or an Excursion with 4 feet of ground > clearance…..in a snow storm you’re going to start dragging > ass after 6 or 8 inches accumulate. > The performance of the xi is excellent.  Not as good as the > 330i (2wd), but still excellent.  If that extra half second > going from 0 to 60 makes a big difference to you, get the > 330i.  But for me the xi is plenty fast.  I even have an > automatic which takes away more performance.  But compared > to my old Ford Expedition (or anything else I’ve ever owned > for that matter)…..this thing is a rocket. > I, too, have had something with 4wd or awd for the past 30 > years which is why I got the xi.  I wanted a BMW, didn’t > want a SUV and finally decided on the xi…..and am very > glad I did. > I have had very few maintenance problems.  A tough > electrical problem at 5,000 miles….turned out to be a > crimped spark plug wire….no problems since.  I’ve had two > torn cv’s on the front wheels that caused grease to splatter > around on the wheels.  But I think I caused them myself on > an autocross day….replaced under warranty. > Been through lots of tires….in 53k miles I’m on my 4th > set…..track days and aggressive driving eat up tires on > this car.  But I’m the cause of it, not the car’s fault.  If > you buy sticky high performance tires, the wear very > quickly, but they’re a hoot to drive on. > I got all three packages…sport, premium and cold > weather….very glad I got all three.  Best part of the > sport package are the seats….love them.  Premium package, > great leather, gotta have a moonroof, tilt down right side > mirror is great, light sensing rear view mirror is great, > rain sensing wipers are wonderful.  Since I ended up putting > so many miles on this car (it has seen its share of these > united states), I wish I had purchased the navigation > system.  I had no idea that I would take this car where I > have, so far away from home, so often.  I’ve been totally > lost a few times.  Never thought I’d ever use the fold down > rear seats, but I’m amazed at the number of times they have > been very helpful….glad I have them. > I like the xenon’s.  Very used to them now.  When I drive > someone else’s car, I can’t stand their headlights, seem > very yellow and dim. > The car after 53k miles is still very tight….no > rattles….no shakes….no noises…..none!….still very > quiet when the windows are up…..I commented to a friend > just the other day at how this car maintains it’s > "solidness" after 2.5 years of ownership and 53,000 miles. > They’re built to last. > It’s my favorite toy. > Tom Allen > St. Louis

Tom,   Thanks to you and the rest for your responses.    I was pretty much sold before but now for sure.   My wife has a 2003 530i which we both like very much and has been almost trouble free.  We have an issue with the driver’s seat memory which sometimes returns to a different position for no reason – after locking, going in a store, coming back and unlocking with the same key.  Sure is wierd but we are waiting for the next service to get it fixed. I was somewhat reluctant to buy the 2003 as we had a 1977 530i that we bought new for about $13K and it was bad news – really a piece of junk.   We finally traded it in on a Honda Accord and were actually very glad we did.    But this one is good and we are very happy with it.  Hope we do as well with the 330xi. Thanks again, Frank

Response:

Question:

My heater blows hot on one side (windscreen outlet) all the time. Local dealer says it needs a new valve for ZAR 2931 plus labour (= GBP 245 or $ 450). My questions: (a) anyone know if the valve is easy to get at (or hidden deep behind the dash)? (b) is it worth fitting a second-hand unit? or (c) is the valve likely to be repairable? TIA John. —

Response:

> My heater blows hot on one side (windscreen outlet) all the time. Local > dealer says it needs a new valve for ZAR 2931 plus labour (= GBP 245 or $ > 450). My questions: (a) anyone know if the valve is easy to get at (or > hidden deep behind the dash)? (b) is it worth fitting a second-hand unit? > or (c) is the valve likely to be repairable? TIA > John.

According to what I see on Bavarian auto for a ‘87 735i it looks like you have vacuum operated valves. Those are a good bit cheaper than the electrically operated valve assembly used on later E32’s ($49/US vs $149/US). On the later E32’s the valves were mounted in the engine bay on the left side against the firewall. Dunno if an early E32 (which and ‘87 should be) has them in the same place. With vacuum operated valves it could be that you just have a broken hose. Do you know if that’s been checked or if your mechanic is just assuming the the valve is bad? — The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

Response:

> — > Thanks. There is something that looks about right on the left side of the > firewall. I may as well take it off and see if it’s repairable before > shelling out $450 just because BMW believes in a ‘throw away’ society.

Coolant hoses ledaing into it?  One electrical connector?  Four small screws on top?  That’s it.  Be prepared for coolant spills.  *After* you get it off and get those screws out, Jenny Morgan (BMW CCA’s Roundel columnist) recommends that you *replace them* with either bolts or phillips screws.  I think you’ll know why when you get them out. — C.R. Krieger (Been there; hate them)

Response:

> With vacuum operated valves it could be that you just have a broken hose. > Do you know if that’s been checked or if your mechanic is just assuming > the the valve is bad? > — > The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

Thanks. I’ll check hoses and/or wires first. J

Response:

–

My questions: (a) anyone know if the valve is easy to get at (or – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hidden deep behind the dash)? > On your 7, I don’t know.  It’s really easy on the 5 Series.  In the > engine compartment, just about dead center. > (b) is it worth fitting a second-hand unit? > No.  They all crap out eventually. > (c) is the valve likely to be repairable? > Yes, but BMW doesn’t sell the core alone.  Benz does.  So do some > aftermarket BMW suppliers like Bavarian Autosport.  It’s about $30. > If you can get the four little screws out of the valve, it’s a > 15-minute job. > — > C.R. Krieger > (I can see *mine*!)

Thanks. There is something that looks about right on the left side of the firewall. I may as well take it off and see if it’s repairable before shelling out $450 just because BMW believes in a ‘throw away’ society. J.

Response:

> My heater blows hot on one side (windscreen outlet) all the time. Local > dealer says it needs a new valve for ZAR 2931 plus labour (= GBP 245 or $ > 450). My questions: (a) anyone know if the valve is easy to get at (or > hidden deep behind the dash)?

On your 7, I don’t know.  It’s really easy on the 5 Series.  In the engine compartment, just about dead center. (b) is it worth fitting a second-hand unit? No.  They all crap out eventually. > (c) is the valve likely to be repairable?

Yes, but BMW doesn’t sell the core alone.  Benz does.  So do some aftermarket BMW suppliers like Bavarian Autosport.  It’s about $30. If you can get the four little screws out of the valve, it’s a 15-minute job. — C.R. Krieger (I can see *mine*!)

Response:

Question:

> Hi, > This car is great to drive but recently it has just experienced a major > problem with the drivers window.  When opening it, there is a loud noise > like the glass is breaking (a loud metal noise).  But the motor is still > operational. > I have therefore just left the window half open and tried to see if the > glass is loose and I can move it out of the socket in the left frame.  Is > this a design problem or do I need to take it to the dealer and pay a > fortune ? > Any help much appreciated

I had the same problem on my 318i E36 model. But over time it just stopped doing that, when I spoke to the dealer they said some times water goes into the motor and makes the noise till all of it has dried up. I dont belive them though!

Response:

Hi, This car is great to drive but recently it has just experienced a major problem with the drivers window.  When opening it, there is a loud noise like the glass is breaking (a loud metal noise).  But the motor is still operational. I have therefore just left the window half open and tried to see if the glass is loose and I can move it out of the socket in the left frame.  Is this a design problem or do I need to take it to the dealer and pay a fortune ? Any help much appreciated

Response:

Question:

I have a couple of mid 90’s BMW 3 series whose window weatherstripping is binding and squealing a bit.  What’s the right product for lubricating these? I’m pretty sure any petroleum-based lube or silicone is going to smear on the glass.  Is graphite appropriate, or is it harder than the glass?  What else is there? I’d rather not replace the weatherstripping since it’s OK otherwise.  Worst case, does anyone know where I can get replacement 3 series weatherstripping for a good price?     Randy — Randy Crawford   http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rand   rand AT rice DOT edu

Response:

It sounds like you need a tube of gummi-pflege: http://www.nmia.com/~dgnrg/page_9.htm Note, there’s supposedly a nationwide "shortage" of this stuff at BMW dealers (or so they say). Get down to your nearest dealer today….

Response:

At work, we were told to use radiator antifreeze to lubricate any rubber weatherstripping.

> I have a couple of mid 90’s BMW 3 series whose window weatherstripping is > binding and squealing a bit.  What’s the right product for lubricating these? > I’m pretty sure any petroleum-based lube or silicone is going to smear on the > glass.  Is graphite appropriate, or is it harder than the glass?  What else is > there? > I’d rather not replace the weatherstripping since it’s OK otherwise. Worst > case, does anyone know where I can get replacement 3 series

weatherstripping for – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> a good price? >     Randy > — > Randy Crawford   http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rand   rand AT rice DOT edu

Response:

Gummi-pfleg is BMW’s recommend product, but almost any spray silicone will do the job. Roll the window down and spray it into the weather striping on the front and back of the door not the rubber seal . Run the window up and down a few times and it should fix the problem.

> I have a couple of mid 90’s BMW 3 series whose window weatherstripping is > binding and squealing a bit.  What’s the right product for lubricating these? > I’m pretty sure any petroleum-based lube or silicone is going to smear on the > glass.  Is graphite appropriate, or is it harder than the glass?  What else is > there? > I’d rather not replace the weatherstripping since it’s OK otherwise. Worst > case, does anyone know where I can get replacement 3 series

weatherstripping for > a good price? >     Randy > — > Randy Crawford   http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rand   rand AT rice DOT edu is

BMW’s

Response:

I used silicone dielectric grease in the window channels only.  They slide like new, now.  Oh, I tested this on Fords, YMMV. PoD

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Gummi-pfleg is BMW’s recommend product, but almost any spray silicone will > do the job. Roll the window down and spray it into the weather striping on > the front and back of the door not the rubber seal . Run the window up and > down a few times and it should fix the problem. > I have a couple of mid 90’s BMW 3 series whose window weatherstripping is > binding and squealing a bit.  What’s the right product for lubricating > these? > I’m pretty sure any petroleum-based lube or silicone is going to smear on > the > glass.  Is graphite appropriate, or is it harder than the glass?  What > else is > there? > I’d rather not replace the weatherstripping since it’s OK otherwise. > Worst > case, does anyone know where I can get replacement 3 series > weatherstripping for > a good price? >     Randy > — > Randy Crawford   http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rand   rand AT rice DOT edu is > BMW’s

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve recently had both my daytime running lights (Canadian vehicle) > and low-beam headlights repaired in quick succession at my local Honda > dealership (both were wiring/relay issues). The lights were all > working and now our family was ready to take the van on a trip to New > York State! When we got about as far from home as we were going > (Ithaca, New York), the turn signals and hazard lights decided to quit > working. I was able to get on the Internet at our hotel that evening > and figure out where the flasher relay was located. The next morning, > I found that by pushing up hard with my fingers on the middle of the > flasher relay, I could get the hazards and turn signals to work. My > question is, is this for sure a problem with the relay itself, or > might it be a problem with the connector or ground wire, etc.? I’m > very suspicious that all of the problems mentioned might be related > (i.e., there is some other underlying electrical problem). Anyone have > an answer for this one?

BJ, there are two identical-sized relays behind your dash. The one with about 13 wires in it’s plug is the DRL relay. With your head resting on the brake pedal, look straight up and you’ll see them side by side. (skip this for now, doesn’t add up to what the schematis shows..) If you’re from Eastern Canada, grounding problems would be a good place to start, but the DRL problems you’ve had are pretty typical of ‘95, ‘96, ‘97 Ody. Have you removed that relay , popped it open to see if the solder joints are melted / pitted? The diagram I have for the turn signals / hazard lights is soooo simple, but you may find corrosion or a bad solder joint where the ‘boys’ were playing around with your signal lever / relay. They may have had the flasher in and out so many times the lugs are spread apart and won’t connect unless you push in hard. Don’t bend the lugs sideways . .squeeze the female lugs shut, the way they came from the factory. Let us know when you get back from your holiday… ‘Curly’

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve recently had both my daytime running lights (Canadian vehicle) > and low-beam headlights repaired in quick succession at my local Honda > dealership (both were wiring/relay issues). The lights were all > working and now our family was ready to take the van on a trip to New > York State! When we got about as far from home as we were going > (Ithaca, New York), the turn signals and hazard lights decided to quit > working. I was able to get on the Internet at our hotel that evening > and figure out where the flasher relay was located. The next morning, > I found that by pushing up hard with my fingers on the middle of the > flasher relay, I could get the hazards and turn signals to work. My > question is, is this for sure a problem with the relay itself, or > might it be a problem with the connector or ground wire, etc.? I’m > very suspicious that all of the problems mentioned might be related > (i.e., there is some other underlying electrical problem). Anyone have > an answer for this one? > BJ, there are two identical-sized relays behind your dash. The one with > about 13 wires in it’s plug is the DRL relay. With your head resting on > the brake pedal, look straight up and you’ll see them side by side. > (skip this for now, doesn’t add up to what the schematis shows..) > If you’re from Eastern Canada, grounding problems would be a good place > to start, but the DRL problems you’ve had are pretty typical of ‘95, > ‘96, ‘97 Ody. Have you removed that relay , popped it open to see if the > solder joints are melted / pitted? The diagram I have for the turn > signals / hazard lights is soooo simple, but you may find corrosion or a > bad solder joint where the ‘boys’ were playing around with your signal > lever / relay. They may have had the flasher in and out so many times > the lugs are spread apart and won’t connect unless you push in hard. > Don’t bend the lugs sideways . .squeeze the female lugs shut, the way > they came from the factory. > Let us know when you get back from your holiday… > ‘Curly’

Curly, thanks for your quick reply. I’ve already paid over $300 (Canadian) for a new DRL relay + labour…they fixed the low-beam problem at no EXTRA charge a week later as part of the job. It’s pretty suspicious that this flasher relay problem has now occurred, so I’m going to make it clear that I don’t plan on paying more money to get it fixed unless they can prove that it’s unrelated to their previous work. I tried to remove the flasher relay myself to take a look at it but it’s not something I’ve done before, and it didn’t seem to want to come out easily. I didn’t want to break off any clips, etc., that hold it in place. How do I remove the flasher relay? I made it home without any turn signals, mainly by avoiding surface streets, getting way in front of other expressway traffic before changing lanes, and occasionally sticking my arm out the window. I don’t recommend this method to others. BJ

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I’ve recently had both my daytime running lights (Canadian vehicle) and low-beam headlights repaired in quick succession at my local Honda dealership (both were wiring/relay issues). The lights were all working and now our family was ready to take the van on a trip to New York State! When we got about as far from home as we were going (Ithaca, New York), the turn signals and hazard lights decided to quit working. I was able to get on the Internet at our hotel that evening and figure out where the flasher relay was located. The next morning, I found that by pushing up hard with my fingers on the middle of the flasher relay, I could get the hazards and turn signals to work. My question is, is this for sure a problem with the relay itself, or might it be a problem with the connector or ground wire, etc.? I’m very suspicious that all of the problems mentioned might be related (i.e., there is some other underlying electrical problem). Anyone have an answer for this one?

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